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Andrius

Įvadas E9F5FC

Juodraštis? FFFFFF

Užrašai FCFCFC

Klausimai FFFFC0

Gvildenimai CAE7FA

Pavyzdžiai? F6EEF6

Šaltiniai? EFCFE1

Duomenys? FFE6E6

Išsiaiškinimai D8F1D8

Pratimai? FF9999

Dievas man? FFECC0

Pavaizdavimai? E6E6FF

Miglos? AAAAAA

Asmeniškai? BA9696

Mieli dalyviai! Visa mano kūryba ir kartu visi šie puslapiai yra visuomenės turtas, kuriuo visi kviečiami laisvai naudotis, dalintis, visaip perkurti. - Andrius

Įranga

redaguoti

Mintys.AmžinasGyvenimas istorija

Paslėpti nežymius pakeitimus - Rodyti galutinio teksto pakeitimus

2018 lapkričio 01 d., 10:52 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 18-19 eilutės:
Suvokimas, kad mūsų kertinė vertybė nepakankama.
* Sąmoningėjimas, aštuongubo kelio klausimais vis praplėčiantis mūsų kertinę vertybę, tad mus amžinai brandinantis.
2018 rugsėjo 18 d., 11:41 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 11-12 eilutės:

Amžinas gyvenimas išsakomas šešiais atvaizdais - keturiais asmenimis (apimtimis), taip pat suvokimu (didėjančiu laisvumu) ir susiklausymu (mažėjančiu laisvumu).
2018 rugsėjo 18 d., 11:40 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 28 eilutė iš:
* Amžinas gyvenimas leidžia žmogui apsisukti.
į:
* Tavimi matome Dievą. Amžinas gyvenimas leidžia žmogui apsisukti ir žiūrėti ne į Dievą, o su Dievu. Amžinas gyvenimas leidžia priimti Tavo požiūrį.
2018 rugsėjo 18 d., 11:38 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėta 28 eilutė:
* Amžinas gyvenimas leidžia žmogui apsisukti.
2018 rugsėjo 18 d., 11:33 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Ištrintos 11-17 eilutės:
Amžinas gyvenimas yra
* gyvenimas nežinojimu (amžinu gyvenimu - sąmone). Tuo tarpu šiaip gyvename žinojimu (paprastu gyvenimu - pasąmone). Sąmonė šias dvi pasaulėžiūras tobulai sulygina. Minčių sodo bendrystė skiepija nežinojimą kas esame, kaip esame ir kodėl esame.
* is what we choose and thereby open ourselves to God, so that he lives through us as GodTheFather and GodTheSon and GodTheSpirit and then there is BeingOneWith through us
* atvirumas tam, kas už mus didesnis, ir šis pasirinkimas yra pagrindas buvimui viena

* Nežinojimo pilnatvės dvejopas požiūris: Besąlygiškas nieko nežinojimas ir sąlygiškas visko žinojimas.
Ištrintos 15-17 eilutės:
Gyvenimas Savimi: Amžina branda, čia ir dabar.
* Amžina branda - amžinai mokytis, lavintis, ugdytis, bręsti, gyventi - čia ir dabar
* Daugiau nė tik amžinybė.
Pridėtos 22-33 eilutės:
* Nežinojimo pilnatvės dvejopas požiūris: Besąlygiškas nieko nežinojimas ir sąlygiškas visko žinojimas.
Gyvenimas Savimi: Amžina branda, čia ir dabar.
* Amžina branda - amžinai mokytis, lavintis, ugdytis, bręsti, gyventi - čia ir dabar
* Gyvenimas laisve, tad dorove, kaip turėtumėme elgtis.
* Daugiau nė tik amžinybė.
Gyvenimas Tavimi: Gyvenimas klausimais. Žiūrėjimas ne į Dievą, o su Dievu.
* Pasaulį (pasąmonės tinklą) įtakoja ir jame atsispindi kažkas už jį daugiau.
* Atvirumas tam, kas už mus didesnis, ir šis pasirinkimas yra pagrindas buvimui viena.
* Gyvenimas nežinojimu (amžinu gyvenimu - sąmone). Tuo tarpu šiaip gyvename žinojimu (paprastu gyvenimu - pasąmone). Sąmonė šias dvi pasaulėžiūras tobulai sulygina. Minčių sodo bendrystė skiepija nežinojimą kas esame, kaip esame ir kodėl esame.
* Mūsų pasirinkimas, kuriuo atsiveriame Dievui, taip kad jisai gyven mumis kaip Dievas Tėvas, Dievas Sūnus ir Dievas Dvasia ir mumis esame viena.
Gyvenimas Kitu: Šviesuolių bendrystė.
* Išmokymas gyventi kitais. Atsisakymas savęs, savo prielaidų, kaip kad Dievas atsisako. Savęs nežinojimas.
Ištrintos 38-42 eilutės:
Gyvenimas Kitu: Šviesuolių bendrystė.
* Išmokymas gyventi kitais. Atsisakymas savęs, savo prielaidų, kaip kad Dievas atsisako. Savęs nežinojimas.
Gyvenimas Tavimi: Žiūrėjimas ne į Dievą, o su Dievu.
* Pasaulį (pasąmonės tinklą) įtakoja ir jame atsispindi kažkas už jį daugiau.
*
2018 rugsėjo 18 d., 11:27 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Ištrintos 12-13 eilutės:
* suvokimas Dievo gerumo, tai yra, suvokimas, jog Dievas nebūtinai geras.
* amžina branda - amžinai mokytis, lavintis, ugdytis, bręsti, gyventi - čia ir dabar
Ištrinta 13 eilutė:
* žmogaus išėjimas už savęs į neapibrėžtumą, jo išlikimas neapibrėžtume, taip kad esame viena neapibrėžtume.
Pakeista 16 eilutė iš:
* vieningumo buvimas už santvarkos
į:
Pakeistos 20-21 eilutės iš
* Jisai grindžia gyvenimo lygtį.
į:
* Suvokimas Dievo gerumo, tai yra, suvokimas, jog Dievas nebūtinai geras.
* Šis suvokimas
grindžia gyvenimo lygtį.
Pakeistos 23-24 eilutės iš
* Amžina branda, čia ir dabar.
Dievo išsipildymas
į:
Gyvenimas Savimi: Amžina branda, čia ir dabar.
* Amžina branda - amžinai mokytis, lavintis, ugdytis, bręsti, gyventi - čia ir dabar
* Daugiau nė tik amžinybė.
Gyvenimas Dievu:
Dievo išsipildymas
Pridėta 28 eilutė:
* Gyvenimas Dievu. Suvedame nežinantį, tiriantį Dievą - jo dvasią - ir mūsų savastį, būklę, aplinkybes, įskaitant mūsų ryšį su atmintimi, bendryste, visuomene, pasauliu.
Pakeista 32 eilutė iš:
Gyvenimas susiklausymu
į:
Gyvenimas Visais: Gyvenimas susiklausymu
Pakeistos 35-37 eilutės iš
* Gyvenimas Dievu. Suvedame nežinantį, tiriantį Dievą - jo dvasią - ir mūsų savastį, būklę, aplinkybes, įskaitant mūsų ryšį su atmintimi, bendryste, visuomene, pasauliu.
į:
* Vieningumo buvimas už santvarkos
* Žmogaus išėjimas už savęs į neapibrėžtumą, jo išlikimas neapibrėžtume
, taip kad esame viena neapibrėžtume.
Gyvenimas Kitu: Šviesuolių bendrystė
.
Pakeistos 39-41 eilutės iš
* Šviesuolių bendrystė.
* Daugiau nė tik amžinybė.

Žiūrėjimas ne į Dievą, o su Dievu.
į:
Gyvenimas Tavimi: Žiūrėjimas ne į Dievą, o su Dievu.
2018 rugsėjo 18 d., 11:18 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 20-40 eilutės iš
* daugiau nė tik amžinybė
į:
* Nežinojimo pilnatvės dvejopas požiūris: Besąlygiškas nieko nežinojimas ir sąlygiškas visko žinojimas.

Suvokimas, kad Dievas nebūtinai geras.
* Jisai grindžia gyvenimo lygtį.
* Atotrūkis tarp besąlygiško Dievo ir gerumo sąlygose.
* Amžina branda, čia ir dabar.
Dievo išsipildymas
* Visais laikais bevykstantis Dievo (ir kartu visko) visokeriopas išsipildymas būtent mumis, mūsų bendryste, mūsų vienumu, sąmonės ir ypač pasąmonės.
* Dievo Tėvo valia.
* Dievo valios dvasia, šaltinis. Amžino gyvenimo sandara yra išmintis, atvaizdai yra gėrio kryptys (gera širdis ir gera valia), o esmė yra Dievo valia.
* Visko raiška, tad ir visko išsakymas.
Gyvenimas susiklausymu
* Visų skirtingų asmenų (Dievo, Mano, Tavo, Kito) susiklausymo, jų vienumo aplinkybės.
* Ką vienumas (viskas) išgyvena.
* Gyvenimas Dievu. Suvedame nežinantį, tiriantį Dievą - jo dvasią - ir mūsų savastį, būklę, aplinkybes, įskaitant mūsų ryšį su atmintimi, bendryste, visuomene, pasauliu.
* Išmokymas gyventi kitais. Atsisakymas savęs, savo prielaidų, kaip kad Dievas atsisako. Savęs nežinojimas.
* Šviesuolių bendrystė.
* Daugiau nė tik amžinybė.
Žiūrėjimas ne į Dievą, o su Dievu.
* Pasaulį (pasąmonės tinklą) įtakoja ir jame atsispindi kažkas už jį daugiau.
*
2018 rugsėjo 18 d., 11:01 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 16 eilutė iš:
* is that Person goes beyond himself, and is even where is not defined, thus we are one in the undefined.
į:
* žmogaus išėjimas už savęs į neapibrėžtumą, jo išlikimas neapibrėžtume, taip kad esame viena neapibrėžtume.
Pakeistos 18-20 eilutės iš
* is our openness to that which is greater than us and this choice is the basis for BeingOneWith
* is presence of unity beyond system
* Everlasting is only one quality of eternal life.
į:
* atvirumas tam, kas už mus didesnis, ir šis pasirinkimas yra pagrindas buvimui viena
* vieningumo buvimas už santvarkos
* daugiau nė tik amžinybė
2018 rugsėjo 15 d., 14:48 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 28-39 eilutės:

'''Gyvenimo lygtyje'''

Amžiną gyvenimą (ir ypač šuolius bei sąmonės išsiskaidymus, vieningumus) išsako asmenų lygties lygmenys:
* Dievo valia: Šuolis tarp troškimo ir išgyvenimo lygmenų.
** dešimt Dievo įsakymų? ženklų savybės? dvejonės (ir gvildenimai)? nesusivedimai? pertvarkymai?
** kalbomis? išorinio požiūrio įsisavinimu vidiniu požiūriu, tad dangaus karalystės suvokimą žmoniškoje apimtyje
** visumine santvarka? pertvarkymais
* gera valia, jos rodymu: Šuoliu, tarpu, tarp žmonių.
** išgyvenimų rūšys, gėrio kryptys, Kristaus pamokymai?
* išmintimi: Šuoliu iš vienos savasties į kitą savastį per trečią savastį, papildinį
** paskiras išgyvenimas, laipsnynas
2018 rugsėjo 15 d., 14:33 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Ištrinta 26 eilutė:
* [[Sąmoningumas]], [[Sąmoningėjimas]], Consciousness (Self Love) as an idempotent, a fixed point, a View upon oneself. (Žr. Suhrit Dey).
2018 rugsėjo 15 d., 14:33 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 21-28 eilutės:

Amžinas gyvenimas ir gyvenimas
* Amžinas gyvenimas vyksta dviprasmybėje, o gyvenimas vienareikšmiškas, tad veda į mirtį. Mirtis iškyla derinant gyvenimą ir amžiną gyvenimą.
* Gyvenimas sieja jautrumą ir atliepumą, o amžinas gyvenimas juos atskiria.
* Gyvenimas: jautrumas, tada atliepiamumas. Amžinas gyvenimas, tai atvirkščiai: nusistatymas, tada atsidavimas. Tai kūryba. Tai aštuntas požiūris. O gyvenimą apibrėžia septynerybė, septynios apytakos, kūno sistemos, tai tapatumai, besikartojanti veikla. O kūryba, tai netapatumas, tai nesikartoja, o plėtojasi.
* Dviprasmybė yra brandos sąlyga. Juk keičiamės ir išliekames tas pats. Palyginti su prasmingais išgyvenimais, su pradiniu ir galutiniu asmeniu ir su meile, kurios palaikomas asmuo gali atsisakyti savęs.
* [[Sąmoningumas]], [[Sąmoningėjimas]], Consciousness (Self Love) as an idempotent, a fixed point, a View upon oneself. (Žr. Suhrit Dey).
* atsiskleisti
2018 rugsėjo 11 d., 13:10 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 3 eilutė iš:
Žr. [[Suvedimas]], [[Dievo veidas]], [[Gyvenimas]], [[Išgyvenimai]], [[Dievo veidas]], [[Michael Kazanjian]], [[Poreikiai]] (Jėzaus pasisakymai "Aš esu...")
į:
Žr. [[Suvedimas]], [[Dievo veidas]], [[Gyvenimas]], [[Išgyvenimai]], [[Dievo veidas]], [[Michael Kazanjian]], [[Poreikiai]] (Jėzaus pasisakymai "Aš esu..."), [[Šviesuolių bendrystė]]
2018 rugsėjo 11 d., 13:10 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėta 14 eilutė:
* amžina branda - amžinai mokytis, lavintis, ugdytis, bręsti, gyventi - čia ir dabar
2018 rugsėjo 07 d., 15:18 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 19-22 eilutės iš
į:
* Everlasting is only one quality of eternal life.

'''Dievas trokšta viso gerumo'''
Pridėtos 157-158 eilutės:
'''Šiaip gyvenimas ir amžinas gyvenimas'''
Pakeistos 242-246 eilutės iš
attempt at an {{Overview}} of how everything unfolds.

http://www.ms.lt/en/andrius/understanding/diagrams/conjunctions.gif

Everlasting is only one quality of eternal life
.
į:
attempt at an Overview of how everything unfolds.
2018 rugsėjo 07 d., 14:02 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 1-2 eilutės:
>>bgcolor=#e9f5fc<<
------------
Pridėtos 5-8 eilutės:
'''Ką reiškia amžinas gyvenimas?'''

------------
>><<
2018 balandžio 12 d., 17:29 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Ištrintos 2-18 eilutės:

* Amžinas gyvenimas
* Išgyvenimų rūšys
* Kaip atsiranda prasmė
* Dievo įsakymai 6+4
* Dievo dalyvavimas
* Persitvarkymai
* Trys kalbos
* Išsiaiškinimai
* Gvildenimai
* Vertybės
* Savastys
* Ženklų rūšys, savybės
* Kristaus požiūris
* Sandaros ir jų išvertimas kalbomis

http://www.ms.lt/uploads/dievoveidas.png
2018 balandžio 12 d., 17:28 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 1-3 eilutės iš
Žr. [[Suvedimas]], [[Gyvenimas]], [[Išgyvenimai]], [[Dievo veidas]], [[Michael Kazanjian]], [[Poreikiai]] (Jėzaus pasisakymai "Aš esu...")

Savo paroda [[Dievo veidas]] noriu pavaizduoti amžiną gyvenimą. Kas į tai įeina?
į:
Žr. [[Suvedimas]], [[Dievo veidas]], [[Gyvenimas]], [[Išgyvenimai]], [[Dievo veidas]], [[Michael Kazanjian]], [[Poreikiai]] (Jėzaus pasisakymai "Aš esu...")
2018 kovo 18 d., 07:00 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 1 eilutė iš:
Žr. [[Gyvenimas]], [[Išgyvenimai]], [[Dievo veidas]], [[Michael Kazanjian]], [[Poreikiai]] (Jėzaus pasisakymai "Aš esu...")
į:
Žr. [[Suvedimas]], [[Gyvenimas]], [[Išgyvenimai]], [[Dievo veidas]], [[Michael Kazanjian]], [[Poreikiai]] (Jėzaus pasisakymai "Aš esu...")
2018 kovo 18 d., 06:59 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 1-2 eilutės iš
Žr. [[Išgyvenimai]], [[Dievo veidas]], [[Michael Kazanjian]]
į:
Žr. [[Gyvenimas]], [[Išgyvenimai]], [[Dievo veidas]], [[Michael Kazanjian]], [[Poreikiai]] (Jėzaus pasisakymai "Aš esu...")
Pakeistos 22-26 eilutės iš
See also: {{Life}}, IAmStatements

===Eternal Life===

EternalLife
į:
'''Kas yra amžinas gyvenimas?'''

Amžinas gyvenimas yra
* suvokimas Dievo gerumo, tai yra, suvokimas, jog Dievas nebūtinai geras.
* gyvenimas nežinojimu (amžinu gyvenimu - sąmone). Tuo tarpu šiaip gyvename žinojimu (paprastu gyvenimu - pasąmone). Sąmonė šias dvi pasaulėžiūras tobulai sulygina. Minčių sodo bendrystė skiepija nežinojimą kas esame, kaip esame ir kodėl esame.
Pakeistos 32-40 eilutės iš
Eternal life is {{Understanding}} the [{{Good}} goodness] of {{God}}.

I share my
thoughts that "God seeks ALL good" and therefore allows for bad whenever
there is related good.
I offer my definition of "eternal life". I
suggest
that "God's love", in the sense that Frank Mosca points to, is a
fruitful concept that we might first locate within our own minds, and

then learn more by considering its implications for the CTMU.
į:
I share my thoughts that "God seeks ALL good" and therefore allows for bad whenever there is related good. I offer my definition of "eternal life". I suggest that "God's love", in the sense that Frank Mosca points to, is a fruitful concept that we might first locate within our own minds, and then learn more by considering its implications for the CTMU.
Pakeistos 257-265 eilutės iš
{{Andrius}}: God will account for himself. He will silence those who account for him. This is the logic and the story of the Book of Job, when he silenced Job's friends and responded to Job and rewarded him. He will be separate from the good, and not reduced to it. And this is eternal life. And this day is brought on by the innocent victims who require justice. This is the message of the Book of Revelations. For God is a borrower who borrows from those to whom he gives.

>>bgcolor=#EEEEEE<<

'''Gyvenimas nežinojimu, klausimais'''

Minčių sodas: Not knowing what we are, how we are, why we are.

Gyvenimas nežinojimu (amžinu gyvenimu - sąmone) ar žinojimu (paprastu gyvenimu - pasąmone). Jųdviejų tobulas sulyginimas
.
į:
Andrius: God will account for himself. He will silence those who account for him. This is the logic and the story of the Book of Job, when he silenced Job's friends and responded to Job and rewarded him. He will be separate from the good, and not reduced to it. And this is eternal life. And this day is brought on by the innocent victims who require justice. This is the message of the Book of Revelations. For God is a borrower who borrows from those to whom he gives.
2018 kovo 18 d., 06:54 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Ištrintos 258-265 eilutės:

===Discussion===

COMMENT by Benoit
Amdrius says:
"Briefly, we may think of life as the goodness of God (or structurally, anything is everything plus slack). But, as I read in the Gospel of John, eternal life is understanding the goodness of God."

The specific quote from the Gospel of John 17, 3 is: "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." Knowing from revelation (guided investigation) or understanding(speculative research) is where the difference comes in between Faith from the Kingdom's Covenant and the world of Gods. Understanding comes from knowing and knowing comes from revelation; it does not work the other way around, where understanding could produce faith and eternal life. The simple example of this is to give all the ingredients that make up a flower to a natural scientist and to ask him/her to assemble these calcium, potassium and all the ingredients that are understood to be in a flower and to make them into a living flower. Eternal life cannot be figured out because it does not seperate from Who God is. Each speculation we go on with, makes of God a "what" as opposed to Who He is. The peace of Christ is that which keeps our hearts and mind beyond understanding and feeds us so that we may be prepared for any good deed that comes our way. It is called obediance. At some point, Jesus exults the Father in His prayer for "being pleased to hide these divine realities from the great ones of the world and to reveal them to the babes and little ones." The apostle Paul tells the Corinthians: " For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God�and righteousness and sanctification and redemption�that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the LORD."
2017 spalio 14 d., 13:15 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 279-280 eilutės:

Gyvenimas nežinojimu (amžinu gyvenimu - sąmone) ar žinojimu (paprastu gyvenimu - pasąmone). Jųdviejų tobulas sulyginimas.
2017 spalio 14 d., 13:14 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 276 eilutė iš:
'''Nežinojimas'''
į:
'''Gyvenimas nežinojimu, klausimais'''
2017 spalio 14 d., 13:13 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 273-278 eilutės:

>>bgcolor=#EEEEEE<<

'''Nežinojimas'''

Minčių sodas: Not knowing what we are, how we are, why we are.
2014 gegužės 19 d., 15:05 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pridėtos 269-272 eilutės:

'''Day of Judgment'''

{{Andrius}}: God will account for himself. He will silence those who account for him. This is the logic and the story of the Book of Job, when he silenced Job's friends and responded to Job and rewarded him. He will be separate from the good, and not reduced to it. And this is eternal life. And this day is brought on by the innocent victims who require justice. This is the message of the Book of Revelations. For God is a borrower who borrows from those to whom he gives.
2014 gegužės 18 d., 20:40 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pridėtos 21-268 eilutės:

See also: {{Life}}, IAmStatements

===Eternal Life===

EternalLife
* is that Person goes beyond himself, and is even where is not defined, thus we are one in the undefined.
* is what we choose and thereby open ourselves to God, so that he lives through us as GodTheFather and GodTheSon and GodTheSpirit and then there is BeingOneWith through us
* is our openness to that which is greater than us and this choice is the basis for BeingOneWith
* is presence of unity beyond system

Eternal life is {{Understanding}} the [{{Good}} goodness] of {{God}}.

I share my
thoughts that "God seeks ALL good" and therefore allows for bad whenever
there is related good. I offer my definition of "eternal life". I
suggest that "God's love", in the sense that Frank Mosca points to, is a
fruitful concept that we might first locate within our own minds, and
then learn more by considering its implications for the CTMU.

I imagine that, above all, the CTMU is a hypothesis that our minds and
the universe and all self-standing systems are structurally the same,
when they are fully realized as to their potential. I suppose that is
to say that metaphorical thinking is valid. For example, in Plato's
Republic, Socrates compares the human soul with an entire city-state,
and analyzes the state so as to draw conclusions about the soul.

This hypothesis lets us choose the system that we study so as to be able
to explore the questions that we are interested in. The physical world
is an amazing place to consider isolated, reproducible interactions at a
variety of scales. A city-state is a helpful organism for considering
how different outlooks structure themselves with regard to each other.
I imagine that our own human lives are the domains where we have our
best intuition as to how everything comes together as a whole. It is
natural and appropriate to "anthropomorphize", to think as a human, when
we try to grasp the meaning of it all, and anyways, that is the outlook
from which we need to make sense of it all, in the end. But this is
valid when we do so in the sense of a self-standing human because that
is when the metaphor definitely holds. We are brought up not to
consider ourselves as self-standing (think of the oddness of Jesus' "I
Am" or the self-centeredness of an infant). However, we can imagine
God's outlook and thereby escape the social realities that we have
consented to. Perhaps God is sufficiently important to us as simply the
ever present possibility (and through the historical Jesus, an
actuality, and the Creator, a necessity) that we may imagine and access
a self-standing perspective (a Why).

From this view, it is valid to sketch out conclusions based on our
aesthetic sense (what idea we find most beautiful, what we would like to
believe) that is also faithful to the facts that we find. For our
aesthetic sense is, I imagine, a faculty onto a self-standing system
that it relates us to. The conclusion which is most beautiful is the
one that is true. That is, I think, the purpose of our aesthetic
sense. The facts are there, apparently, to force us to unfold, enrich
our aesthetics. They are like dust on panes of glass that let us see
the glass even as we see through it. In general, I suppose, our
aesthetic sense tends towards the minimal solution.

For example, in suburban Orange County, California, in many ways a real
utopia, I grew up thinking that evil is just a misunderstanding. It was
only when I lived for several summers in Soviet-occupied Lithuania - in
a different culture outside my own - that I saw evil. I saw a system
designed to corrupt people, to break their spirit, and to enroll them.
I saw that people were choosing - some to participate in that, succumb
to it, take up its outlook, and others to stand up to that system. But
the participants - the dissidents themselves - would say that those KGB
officers were just victims, too. Living within their own culture, they
could not see that, actually, they were all making choices which were
relevant as to why some ended up as dissidents, and some ended up as
tyrants. When I lived or stayed in different cultures, and felt the
logic of segregation in Chicago, or the castes in Bangalore, then I
could see it there, too. And I could start to understand why somebody
might speak of a demon as afflicting a drug-addict, as if using them for
a nest or shell, or a curse that one might physically feel upon crossing
a street that is all-black on one side and all-white on the other, or an
invisible wall that keeps one human from making eye contact and makes
another confident to do so. Finally, I could step a bit outside of my
own native culture and realize the struggle taking place that Chris
describes, and that we're all part of it. All of this to point to the
empirical and visceral reality of evil as a system that seeks to trap us
into a hell of manipulations.

Aesthetically, what might be the purpose of such evil? What does that
suggest about God? Especially if, aesthetically, we wish to believe
that God is good?

For me, the simplest answer is that God seeks ALL good. Aesthetically,
there must be at least some good which there could be without any bad.
This is to say that good is greater than bad. That although they are
opposites, in some way, good is marked as the relevant one, the
self-standing one. Good allows for bad, perhaps requires bad, but yet
stands on its own, independently of bad. Slack is a structure which
models this. We imagine slack as either increasing or decreasing. They
are both slack. But decreasing slack exhausts itself, whereas
increasing slack does not. They are both "good" and are both
representations of the underlying "good", and yet, as opposites, one is
good and the other is bad.

To say that "God seeks ALL good" means that what's important to God is
good, not bad. God is willing to introduce a lot of bad if that's what
it takes to have an extra bit of good. He wants ALL of it - he is a
megalomaniac. If we think of Scripture as a self-standing body of
wisdom that is greater than our own minds, that stretches our minds
beyond the strictures of logic, and opens our minds to our full ability,
then we see examples of this: the shepherd who risks the 99 sheep to go
out and find the 1 lost sheep.

The practical utility of this position is that wherever we see bad,
there must be good that required it, and so we can look for that good
and reinterpret in terms of it. But we do not have to leave the good
and look for related bad, as there need not be any. Indeed, we can
leave our own good and go beyond ourselves to give slack, to allow for
bad and also good - to increase slack so that slack might decrease. And
we can learn to do that effectively - don't do good in ways that set us
up to feel bad or do bad where we'd regret that - give just a little bit
of slack, as that is all it takes - and be creative and ready to always
give it - and discover new dimensions in which to give it.

In this way we are participating in God's work to pull all the good
together so that it's clear that it all is definitely good. We're
making his life easier, we're sharing an aesthetic. If he doesn't do it
through us, then he'll have to do it through somebody else, and why? We
choose whether we want to be unravelers or simply unraveled. We live
forever as unravelers if we help with the unraveling.

I like the thought which came up (was it Chris? or Franz?) that purpose
(Why) is what we can introduce at any point to bring out moral
implications. The perspective Why - an external reason, not simply an
internal reason How - is what makes any system just as important as any
other as a reference point. The perspective Why is that which presents
it as self-standing and thus able to participate in the metaphors which
link all such systems. Allowing for an answer, Why open us to
integration with other systems.

In thinking about the mind, I am familiar with a division of everything
into four perspectives: whether, what, how, why. I find this structure
to have two representations. We may think them in terms of an observer,
as questions: Whether? What? How? Why? Or we may think of them in terms
of an observed, as answers: Whether! What! How! Why! In terms of the
idealism of the observer, Why? is most important, and Whether? seems
inconsequential, whereas in terms of the materialism of the observed,
Whether! is most substantial, and Why! seems inconsequential.

I suppose that evil arises when a system is not open to integration with
other systems yet takes itself as self-standing. It doesn't need a
Why!. I suppose it is supported by an idealism that doesn't need a
Whether?, that is willing to go along with whatever.

I think that we need to open ourselves to allow for straddling at all
four levels, so that Observer and Observed might see through us, as
through those panes of glass.

I would like to write more about "life" and "eternal life" as opposites,
much like "decreasing slack" and "increasing slack". Briefly, we may
think of life as the goodness of God (or structurally, anything is
everything plus slack). But, as I read in the Gospel of John, eternal
life is understanding the goodness of God. To understand the goodness
of God is to keep the two concepts separate, to recognize good and God
as independent concepts, and not to assume that they are related.
Unfortunately, so often we presume that God is good. That is very
harmful because it diminishes what God means to us. In our lives, we
can testify to many injustices which have yet to be fixed. It is too
early for us as witnesses to say that God is good. The facts aren't in
yet! And to claim to know that God is good is to make him unreal. If
we look forwards, outwards, then we think in terms of increasing slack,
that yes, perhaps in the very end God is good, and yet there is an
eternity of possibility for him to have that be so. God is not
constrained by good, he does not have to be good, it is up to him
whether he is. By presuming his goodness, we are constraining him, our
narrow little minds are binding him to good, and we are therefore
looking backwards. Our lives are finite, and we can explain away
everything in them, until there is nothing left, and we have death.

I find it helpful to recognize that I, as a human, find it hard enough
to wish for my own "life". In general, we tend to tune ourselves out,
to diminish ourselves, to be unsuccessful, to dissipate ourselves, to
walk away from our life. And so "eternal life" isn't even relevant.
Scripture inspires me that it is not my wish, but God's wish that I live
forever. If we define "love" as "support of life" (to love X = to
support the life of X), then it is God's love for us that makes for
eternal life. That is what God wants for us, not what we want for
ourselves. If we understand life, if we understand the goodness of God,
and if we disentangle the concepts of God and good, then we can look
forwards, we can appreciate the reality of life so far, and we can be
open to all the wrongs so far that may be yet redeemed, and all the many
good things left that might come. We can and do live this "eternal
life" now when we choose to allow for the open question of God's
goodness and participate as a player - when we are sensitive,
responsive, engaged. And we choose "death" when, alternatively, we
consider it all closed and let that logic unravel any slack we have.

I liked very much Frank Mosca's letters. I think that the relation
between "love" and "life" is very much that kind of give and take, that
slack between structure and activity, which we may aesthetically ascribe
to God with regard to us. And I am thinking that, just as we ought to
shift from focusing on "life" to "eternal life" as I sketch above, but
so we might shift from "love" (support of life as we might see it) to
"God's love" (support of our life as the eternal life that he cares
about).

If we live the open-ended outlook of eternal life, then I think that the
CTMU might say that such an outlook can't be snapped by any physical
events. Instead, we take our outlook with us, and all of our life which
it connects to, into a broader reinterpretation that is open to connect
with other such. Our life can be stopped only if we restrict ourselves
to a closed outlook which, sadly, is the one that our society presumes
upon us, and the one that would have us be reduced to nothing more than
that which we have already been. The proof, so to speak, is that we are
able to have an outlook "eternal life" which is not what we ourselves
want, but what is given to us nonetheless, and which connects the
unfolding future to our openness to it, so that it has a stake in our
being ever alive, and we're able to drag the "real world" along with us,
"uncollapsed" I suppose. The Psalmist clings to God's glory, for if his
fate is tied to God's glory, then he will ever be alive.

In summary, I think that God would not be attractive if he might might
forbid some good because it would also bring bad. I think that we, as
systems, open ourselves and break out of evil by allowing for the
question Whether? and the answer Why! as they naturally transcend us.
Allowing for an answer Why! makes our question Why? meaningful, and
allowing for a question Whether? makes our answer Whether! meaningful.
We can thereby open ourselves to integration by that which is truly
bigger than us, so that it might peer through us, see itself through us,
and so live through us.

I think that the nature of life continuing openly, uncollapsed by
physical events, is a question that we might apply the CTMU to,
especially in defining further, what is life? We might be able to show
what structures and activities in this world are actually relevant to
that broader world. We might engineer bridges back and forth with that
broader world, perhaps through prayer and good deeds. This might also
have application to our health care systems. I look forward to
exploring connections between the CTMU and my own quest "to know
everything and apply that usefully". I'm especially stirred by Frank's
letters on what I might think of as God's love. Here is my current
attempt at an {{Overview}} of how everything unfolds.

http://www.ms.lt/en/andrius/understanding/diagrams/conjunctions.gif

===Discussion===

COMMENT by Benoit
Amdrius says:
"Briefly, we may think of life as the goodness of God (or structurally, anything is everything plus slack). But, as I read in the Gospel of John, eternal life is understanding the goodness of God."

The specific quote from the Gospel of John 17, 3 is: "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." Knowing from revelation (guided investigation) or understanding(speculative research) is where the difference comes in between Faith from the Kingdom's Covenant and the world of Gods. Understanding comes from knowing and knowing comes from revelation; it does not work the other way around, where understanding could produce faith and eternal life. The simple example of this is to give all the ingredients that make up a flower to a natural scientist and to ask him/her to assemble these calcium, potassium and all the ingredients that are understood to be in a flower and to make them into a living flower. Eternal life cannot be figured out because it does not seperate from Who God is. Each speculation we go on with, makes of God a "what" as opposed to Who He is. The peace of Christ is that which keeps our hearts and mind beyond understanding and feeds us so that we may be prepared for any good deed that comes our way. It is called obediance. At some point, Jesus exults the Father in His prayer for "being pleased to hide these divine realities from the great ones of the world and to reveal them to the babes and little ones." The apostle Paul tells the Corinthians: " For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God�and righteousness and sanctification and redemption�that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the LORD."

Everlasting is only one quality of eternal life.
2012 lapkričio 18 d., 03:47 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 20-24 eilutės iš
http://www.ms.lt/uploads/dievoveidas.png
į:
http://www.ms.lt/uploads/dievoveidas.png

>>bgcolor=#BA9696<<

Gyvenimas įdomus, kad vis nežinai, kas bus toliau. O ko daugiau žinai, to labiau nežinai, kas bus toliau ir to įdomiau.
2012 liepos 22 d., 16:13 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pakeista 1 eilutė iš:
Žr. [[Dievo veidas]], [[Michael Kazanjian]]
į:
Žr. [[Išgyvenimai]], [[Dievo veidas]], [[Michael Kazanjian]]
2012 liepos 17 d., 19:01 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pakeistos 18-20 eilutės iš
* Sandaros ir jų išvertimas kalbomis
į:
* Sandaros ir jų išvertimas kalbomis

http://www.ms.lt/uploads/dievoveidas.png
2012 liepos 17 d., 19:00 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pakeista 3 eilutė iš:
į:
Savo paroda [[Dievo veidas]] noriu pavaizduoti amžiną gyvenimą. Kas į tai įeina?
2012 liepos 17 d., 18:58 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pakeistos 1-5 eilutės iš
Yra lygtis:

Gyvenimas tai Dievo gerumas, o amžinas
gyvenimas, tai Dievo ir gerumo atskyrimas.

Kaip tai susieti su [[Michael Kazanjian]] sandara?
į:
Žr. [[Dievo veidas]], [[Michael Kazanjian]]



* Amžinas
gyvenimas
* Išgyvenimų rūšys
* Kaip atsiranda prasmė
* Dievo įsakymai 6+4
* Dievo dalyvavimas
* Persitvarkymai
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* Vertybės
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* Ženklų rūšys, savybės
* Kristaus požiūris
* Sandaros ir jų išvertimas kalbomis
2012 gegužės 01 d., 19:06 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pakeista 5 eilutė iš:
Kaip tai susieti su [[Michael Kanzanjian]] sandara?
į:
Kaip tai susieti su [[Michael Kazanjian]] sandara?
2012 gegužės 01 d., 19:06 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pakeistos 3-5 eilutės iš
Gyvenimas tai Dievo gerumas, o amžinas gyvenimas, tai Dievo ir gerumo atskyrimas.
į:
Gyvenimas tai Dievo gerumas, o amžinas gyvenimas, tai Dievo ir gerumo atskyrimas.

Kaip tai susieti su [[Michael Kanzanjian]] sandara?
2012 gegužės 01 d., 19:05 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pridėtos 1-3 eilutės:
Yra lygtis:

Gyvenimas tai Dievo gerumas, o amžinas gyvenimas, tai Dievo ir gerumo atskyrimas.

AmžinasGyvenimas


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Puslapis paskutinį kartą pakeistas 2018 lapkričio 01 d., 10:52