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Mintys.Santvarka istorija

Paslėpti nežymius pakeitimus - Rodyti kodo pakeitimus

2021 rugsėjo 16 d., 14:20 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 236-242 eilutės:

Santykis su santvarka

  • Dievo asmenų santykis su santvarka
    • Tėvas yra už santvarkos. Sūnus yra kitoje pusėje santvarkos, jos gelmėse. O Dvasia juos abu supranta, kaip esančius santvarkoje.
    • 10 Dvasios raiškų yra išsiaiškinimai santvarkoje, o 8 Sūnaus raiškos yra išsiaiškinimai už santvarkos. Juk Sūnus išsiaiškina dar neįsigalėjus santvarkai, tuo tarpu Dvasia žiūri iš šalies, jau esant santvarkai. Žmogaus trejybės ratas taip pat vyksta neįsigalėjus santvarkai. Žmogaus trejybės ratas tad papildo Sūnaus 8 raiškas ir jas kartu papildo žinojimo rūmų židinys - Sūnaus pilnatvė. (Tačiau ar trejybės ratą neturėtų papildyti "pakankamas Dievas"?) O Tėvo raiškos sieja tai kas santvarkoje ir už santvarkos, tad santvarkai priskirtina pradžia (nepriklausomo tyrimo išsiaiškinimo būdas) ir pabaiga (aplinkybių išsiaiškinimo būdas). Tad pradžia yra santvarkos tuštuma, o pabaiga yra neišsemiamumas to, kas už santvarkos.
  • Vienumo išgyvenimas santvarkoje
    • Tokiu būdu, tai kas yra už santvarkos, ką Sūnus ir mes išgyvename, iš tikrųjų yra apimta santvarkos. Mes "išgyvename" santvarką savo nežinojimo pertekliumi, savo dvasios pertekliumi, malonės pertekliumi. O pati santvarka pasižymi teisingumu, ne pertekliumi. Pertvarkymai savo tarpais derina malonę ir teisingumą.
2021 birželio 04 d., 16:43 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėta 235 eilutė:
  • Galimybė (kaip šaknis {$x_i-x_j$}) už santvarkos veda santvarkoje iš esamybės (įsijungimą į santvarką) {$x_i$} į siekiamybę (susiderinimią santvarkoje) {$x_j$}. Tai primena Lie algebrų šaknis. Tad santvarką galime įsivaizduoti kaip įvairiai išplečiančią tai kas už santvarkos.
2021 birželio 04 d., 16:20 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 234 eilutė iš:
į:
  • Dievo ir žmogaus dvilypumas jiems esant kartu santvarkoje ir taip pat dvilypumas Dievo santvarkoje ir už santvarkos.
2021 gegužės 28 d., 22:28 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 20-21 eilutės:
  • Koks ryšys tarp išgyvenimo, neišgyvenimo, suvokimo ir dvasios bei santvarkos?
  • Kaip susijusios priešpriešos būklių pirm ir po santvarkos ir būklių santvarkoje ir už santvarkos? Ar tai susiję su kampais santvarkoje ir už santvarkos? Kaip tai susiję su įvariomis sandaromis kaip antai netroškimais? Ar santykis tarp išeities taškų pirm santvarkos ir po santvarkos yra pagrindas sandarų išsivystymui?
2021 gegužės 27 d., 15:03 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 3 eilutė iš:

Suvestinė, Išsivertimai, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Vaizduotė, Santvarkų nagrinėjimas, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger, Raida

į:

Suvestinė, Išsivertimai, Priėmimas, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Vaizduotė, Santvarkų nagrinėjimas, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger, Raida

2021 balandžio 17 d., 17:03 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėta 228 eilutė:
  • https://www.zhihu.com/people/liu-si-mo-18
2021 balandžio 17 d., 16:26 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 223-230 eilutės:

Užrašai

  • 6+4 sieja sąmoningumą ir nesąmoningumą.

Liu Si Mo filosofijos brėžinys 4+6

  • šališkumas-nešališkumas ketverybės atvaizdai
  • laikiškumas-erdviškumas penkerybės atvaizdai
  • priežastingumas-likimiškumas šešerybės atvaizdai
2021 kovo 15 d., 15:26 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 221-223 eilutės:
  • Santvarka: Dievo nebuvimas šešiais požiūriais grindžia trejybės ratą matantį Tėvą, Sūnų, Dvasią.
2021 kovo 13 d., 17:56 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 6-7 eilutės:

Kaip santvarka apibrėžia žmogaus būklę?

2021 kovo 06 d., 17:16 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 201-218 eilutės:
  • Vienumas vyksta ne Viskuo o Betkuo. Betkas turi šešis atvaizdus (pasirinkimai - rinktis: taip, ne ne, ne taip, ne, rinktis, nesirinkti), tiek visko keturis atvaizdus (troškimai: visko, betko, kažko, nieko), tiek laisvumo du atvaizdus (susitapatinimai: didėjantis, mažėjantis laisvumas).
  • Santvarka įvairiai suprastina sandaromis, kurios turi po šešis požiūrius: lygmenų poros, pertvarkymai, permainos, ženklų savybės, atjautos ir t.t. Bene keturi asmenys savaip supranta santvarką.
  • Dvasia prie santvarkos šešių požiūrių pridedu keturis požiūrius, taip kad tie keturi prilygsta keturiem iš šešių, o taip pat šeši yra poros keturių požiūrių.
  • Dvasia mato Tėvą (už santvarkos) ir Sūnų (santvarkoje).
  • Tėvas mato kaip iš jo santvarkoje kyla Sūnus
  • Sūnus mato kaip už santvarkos yra Tėvas
  • Be jų yra santvarka, kurią išplečia Dvasia.

Tad trejybės ratas santvarka sieja visus tris: Tėvą, Sūnų, Dvasią.

  • Ar Dievas būtinas? Viduj santvarkoje esantiems Dievas yra stabilus, reikalingas, tikras, būtinas. Nesant santvarkoj, Dievo taškas yra nestabilus, taip pat simetriškas (Dievas trijuose matuose ir Dievas trejybės rate) tad nebūtinas.

Dievas santvarką išgyvena apytaka, asmeniu, apimtimi. Jų trejopu pagrindu išgyvena santvarką besąlygiškai, nešališkai, nepaneigiamai, trejybės ratu.

  • 3 (suvokimo srautai) x 4 (pakopos) = 12 aplinkybių
  • 4 (pakopos) x 2 (kryptys) = 8 padalinimai
  • 2 (kryptys) x 3 (srautai) = 6 atvaizdai pertvarkymai

Viskas ir visos sandaros išplaukia iš dvejybės, trejybės, ketverybės. O viskas susiveda į septynerybės tarpą tarp Dievo už mūsų ir Dievo mumyse, sąmonė ir pasąmonės, klausimo ir atsakymo, pirmos tvarkos ir antros tvarkos, savęs ir pasaulio.

2021 kovo 03 d., 22:32 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 94-100 eilutės:

These are the levels of structure that are necessary for us to experience structure. In that sense they are related to the Levels Of Understanding. We start with the widest and immerse ourselves into narrower scopes. These may be thought of as the RepresentationsOfEverything, in which case they do not degenerate, but are specified:

  • Dievas trokšta visko spirit to spirit
  • Dievas trokšta betko spirit to structure
  • Dievas trokšta kažko structure to spirit
  • Dievas trokšta nieko structure to structure

(I need to check on the order of the above). These representations result from considering spirit and structure as Equals and letting them manifest themselves as Unequals in four ways, yielding four representations (wishes). They are unequal in terms of the distance between themselves, from everything (spirit to spirit) to nothing (structure to structure). Alternatively, we may consider them as unequals, and let them manifest themselves equals, in which case we have two representations (scopes):Beginning and End, see: BeginningVEnd.

2021 kovo 03 d., 20:46 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 90-93 eilutės:

Santvarkos šeši kampai

We may think of God as TheBeginning - the perspective from which everything unfolds - and human as TheEnd - the perspective into which everything comes together. Their relationship is, I think, that of Jesus Christ - the beginning and the end, the Alfa and the Omega (the A and Z), the coinciding of perfection ("Love God") and identity ("love your neighbor as yourself") - by which God's perspective and our perspective may coincide. This outline describes this relationship between The Beginning and The End as given by the unfolding of Understanding, Self-understanding, Share dUnderstanding and Good Understanding.

2021 vasario 26 d., 21:36 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėta 13 eilutė:
  • Kaip susiję santvarka ir vaizduotė?
2021 vasario 26 d., 21:35 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 3 eilutė iš:

Suvestinė, Išsivertimai, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Vaizduotė, Santvarkų nagrinėjimas Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger, Raida

į:

Suvestinė, Išsivertimai, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Vaizduotė, Santvarkų nagrinėjimas, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger, Raida

2021 vasario 22 d., 14:23 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 30 eilutė iš:
  • Santvarka yra Dievo lukštas.
į:
  • Santvarka yra Dievo lukštas, tai kas šalia Dievo.
2021 vasario 22 d., 14:23 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 16-17 eilutės iš
į:
  • Kaip suveikia velnio lukštas, tai yra, lukštas be Dievo, santvarka be Dievo?
Pridėta 30 eilutė:
  • Santvarka yra Dievo lukštas.
2021 vasario 19 d., 21:45 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 41-48 eilutės iš
į:

System IS definition.

  • Definition arises as system. That is why system is formal. That is why "a system is that which is its own self". For, as I noted, by defining we are observing and yet also creating. By defining, we equate what we refer to with what we refer by. In a system, formality IS reality. That is the ultimate problem with system: reality can be more than formality.
  • God is the undefined.

Thus, God can stand alone. God needs no "self" because God is prior to any system. The nature of God is "to be one with", which upon definition means "to not be restricted by one's self". (God's self is "everything" and he goes beyond that.) God manifests his nature by going beyond himself, that is going from the unbounded into the bounded. He first goes beyond himself and thereby generates his "self" which is the "undefined" (and which later is thought of as "everything"). He then goes beyond himself further by allowing for a perspective beyond the "undefined", which is to say, where there is no "undefined", and yet even there he appears. That is the perspective of "definition" (which does not allow the undefined) and yet wherein the "undefined" arises as the "defined" (for the defined, as an outcome of definition, was ultimately undefined). This second perspective is thus the coexisting of opposites, "definition" and "defined":

  • system is definition
  • human is the defined (and thus the undefined within definition)

At this point ("the second day of creation") human and world are not self-standing, they are understood as opposites that must be taken together, and more structure is needed to tease them apart. I'm just sharing my conclusion (with your help) that God, human, system (or the undefined, defined, definition) are (and should be) at the very root of how all things unfold.

Pakeistos 60-61 eilutės iš
  • (“the world”) is NotBeingOneWith, negation, semantic distinction of God (beyond Scope) and Self - NotGod (within Scope), distinction (which is the basis for negation) of having properties and accepting them, the distinction of levels, the framework for meaning, the establishment of vantage points for taking up or not. System allows for NotGod, Scope, Person, Knowledge, Definition. System as the Twosome relates Theory and Facts as identifications of God and NotGod, establishes Theory as GoingBeyondOneself into Facts. Negation is the isolation (negation) of what is not fixed (free, within system) from what is fixed (not free, beyond system). (Consider the QualitiesOfSigns.)
į:
  • (“the world”) is NotBeingOneWith, negation, semantic distinction of God (beyond Scope) and Self - NotGod (within Scope), distinction (which is the basis for negation) of having properties and accepting them, the distinction of levels, the framework for meaning, the establishment of vantage points for taking up or not. System allows for NotGod, Scope, Person, Knowledge, Definition. System as the Twosome relates Theory and Facts as identifications of God and NotGod, establishes Theory as GoingBeyondOneself into Facts. Negation is the isolation (negation) of what is not fixed (free, within system) from what is fixed (not free, beyond system). (Consider the QualitiesOfSigns.)
  • Santvarka žadina žmogaus sąmoningumą, juk jisai aprėpdamas jos visumą ima suprasti, kad yra kažkas už jos daugiau.
  • Human gradually takes up the thinking of the system that he finds himself in, until he can separate himself from it (by virtue of being loved).
  • Human's view leads to a trinity of love (by way of the sixsome).
  • Human is God within a system. God is human beyond any system. So a system distinguishes between those within it and those beyond it.
Pakeistos 71-73 eilutės iš
į:
  • A System is that which is its own Self. One's self is that by which one relates to others, that is, other selves. A System is thus a relationship amongst others. They are related by way of their selves. These selves are the participants of the system. The system is thus formal and takes the selves as the literal expression of the beings they refer to. The beings may be attached to the system by way of these selves, or they may be detached by way of views that allow for what may be beyond the system. The system does not acknowledge any inner activity within the participants except as it manifests itself with regard to others in the system (those things are which show themselves to be). Yet the participants may be able to allow for what may be beyond the system - Spirit, they may identify with that, and their identification may shape their participation, so that the primacy of that beyond the system is made evident, and therewith the contingency of the system.
Ištrinta 74 eilutė:
  • Human is God within a system. God is human beyond any system. So a system distinguishes between those within it and those beyond it.
Pakeistos 88-97 eilutės iš

Santvarkos išsivystymas

Save modeliuojanti sistema išvystys visko padalinimus (smegenų "global workspace") ir Bott periodiškumą.

Santvarkos požiūris

Human gradually takes up the thinking of the system that he finds himself in, until he can separate himself from it (by virtue of being loved).

Human's view leads to a trinity of love (by way of the sixsome).

į:

Santvarką išreiškia apytakos

  • Kiekviena apytaka išreiškia santvarką atitinkamoje apimtyje - viskame, betkame, kažkame, niekame - tad vis tampriau, sodriau.
Pakeistos 94-108 eilutės iš

A System is that which is its own Self. One's self is that by which one relates to others, that is, other selves. A System is thus a relationship amongst [Other others]. They are related by way of their [Self selves]. These selves are the participants of the system. The system is thus formal and takes the selves as the literal expression of the beings they refer to. The beings may be attached to the system by way of these selves, or they may be detached by way of views that allow for what may be beyond the system. The system does not acknowledge any inner activity within the participants except as it manifests itself with regard to others in the system (those things are which show themselves to be). Yet the participants may be able to allow for what may be beyond the system - Spirit, they may identify with that, and their identification may shape their participation, so that the primacy of that beyond the system is made evident, and therewith the contingency of the system.

(Note that we should love God with All our heart, soul, mind, body, but we should only love our neighbor As our Self.)

System, Definition

System IS definition. Definition arises as system. That is why system is formal. That is why "a system is that which is its own self". For, as I noted, by defining we are observing and yet also creating. By defining, we equate what we refer to with what we refer by. In a system, formality IS reality. That is the ultimate problem with system: reality can be more than formality.

  • God is the undefined.

Thus, God can stand alone. God needs no "self" because God is prior to any system. The nature of God is "to be one with", which upon definition means "to not be restricted by one's self". (God's self is "everything" and he goes beyond that.) God manifests his nature by going beyond himself, that is going from the unbounded into the bounded. He first goes beyond himself and thereby generates his "self" which is the "undefined" (and which later is thought of as "everything"). He then goes beyond himself further by allowing for a perspective beyond the "undefined", which is to say, where there is no "undefined", and yet even there he appears. That is the perspective of "definition" (which does not allow the undefined) and yet wherein the "undefined" arises as the "defined" (for the defined, as an outcome of definition, was ultimately undefined). This second perspective is thus the coexisting of opposites, "definition" and "defined":

  • system is definition
  • human is the defined (and thus the undefined within definition)

At this point ("the second day of creation") human and world are not self-standing, they are understood as opposites that must be taken together, and more structure is needed to tease them apart. I'm just sharing my conclusion (with your help) that God, human, system (or the undefined, defined, definition) are (and should be) at the very root of how all things unfold.

į:

We should love God with All our heart, soul, mind, body, but we should only love our neighbor As our Self.

2021 vasario 19 d., 21:33 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Ištrintos 18-21 eilutės:

Pastebėjau, kad kiekvienoje santvarkoje, kiekvienoje sandaroje yra požiūris atstovaujantis tam, kas už santvarkos, kas už sandaros. Ko įmantresnė ta santvarka, to gilesnis tas požiūris.


Pridėta 36 eilutė:
  • Kiekvienoje santvarkoje, kiekvienoje sandaroje yra požiūris atstovaujantis tam, kas už santvarkos, kas už sandaros. Ko įmantresnė ta santvarka, to gilesnis tas požiūris.
2021 vasario 19 d., 21:32 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Ištrintos 19-20 eilutės:

Santvarka išryškėja netroškimais, o prieš tai tėra sąlygos. Trokštame - Dievas mumyse - sutampame su juo. Netrokštame - Dievas už mūsų - nesutampame su juo.

Pridėtos 36-39 eilutės:

Dievo ir žmogaus požiūrių išskyrimas

  • Dievas yra pirm santvarkos, užtat santvarkoje gyvena mumis, santvarkoje esančiais. O mes esame po santvarkos, tad Dievas mums yra už santvarkos.
  • Santvarka išryškėja mūsų netroškimais, o prieš tai tėra sąlygos. Trokštame - Dievas mumyse - sutampame su juo. Netrokštame - Dievas už mūsų - nesutampame su juo.
2021 vasario 19 d., 20:36 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Ištrintos 27-28 eilutės:

Santvarkos brėžinys išsako kokia santvarka yra be dvasios, be išgyventojo, be turinio. Tokia santvarka tuomi prieštarauja sau. Jinai tad subliukšta ir lieka prieštaravimas, Dievas. O šią santvarką galime suprasti kaip asmens būklę. Dievas kaip toks yra trijų matų nurodytame taške, nestabilumo taške. Asmenys apibrėžiami Dievui išeinant už savęs į save, jam įvairiais lygmenimis apibrėžiant santvarką. Be asmenų, tuščia santvarka yra simetriška, Dievo atvirumas trimis matais ir jo uždarumas trejybės ratu vienas kitam prilygsta. Tuo tarpu santvarką išgyvenantiems asmenims pirmenybė teiktina atvirajam Dievui už santvarkos. Užtat jais Dievas yra būtinas. Tuščioje santvarkoje Dievas yra nebūtinas, tačiau tokia santvarka subliūkšta ir prilygsta Dievui.

Pakeistos 30-35 eilutės iš

Suvokimas - išskyrimas

  • Išskyrimas dvasios santvarkoje ir už santvarkos.
  • Išskyrimas dvasios santvarkoje (pirm santvarkos) ir santvarkos dvasios (po santvarkos). Tai ta pati dvasia, tik santvarkos išskirta.
  • Dievas kaip santvarka ir Dievas kaip dvasia yra viena. Dievas kaip santvarka yra suvokimas. Kaip šv.Jono evangelijos pradžioje tvirtinama, tai buvo nuo pradžios, pirm santvarkos jau buvo dvasia santvarkoje.
  • Santvarka iškyla atskiriant pirminį, numatytąjį požiūrį (Dievo, buvimo su, nekintantį, išgyvenantį) nuo nepriklausomo požiūrio (kuris nėra su, įvairiuoja, neišgyvena).
į:

Sandaros palaikančios Dievo neišėjimo už savęs

  • Santvarkos brėžinyje išsakytos sandaros kurios palaiko tris kryptis (besąlygiškumą, nešališkumą, nepaneigiamumą) kuriomis Dievas gali neišeiti už savęs dėl to, kad jis jau yra santvarkoje.
  • Šešerybė - žmogus - vaizduotė.
  • Santvarkos brėžinys išsako kokia santvarka yra be dvasios, be išgyventojo, be turinio. Tokia santvarka tuomi prieštarauja sau. Jinai tad subliukšta ir lieka prieštaravimas, Dievas. O šią santvarką galime suprasti kaip asmens būklę. Dievas kaip toks yra trijų matų nurodytame taške, nestabilumo taške. Asmenys apibrėžiami Dievui išeinant už savęs į save, jam įvairiais lygmenimis apibrėžiant santvarką. Be asmenų, tuščia santvarka yra simetriška, Dievo atvirumas trimis matais ir jo uždarumas trejybės ratu vienas kitam prilygsta. Tuo tarpu santvarką išgyvenantiems asmenims pirmenybė teiktina atvirajam Dievui už santvarkos. Užtat jais Dievas yra būtinas. Tuščioje santvarkoje Dievas yra nebūtinas, tačiau tokia santvarka subliūkšta ir prilygsta Dievui.
  • Neapibrėžtumas - Dievo neapibrėžtumo palaikymas.
Ištrintos 38-43 eilutės:

Santykių pagrindas

  • Tai kas mus sieja mūsų savastimis.
  • identifies one with one's self, is negation of self, but also affirmation of his self.
  • Būdami savimi - savastimis - pirma esame savimi ir tik paskui esame viena su vienas kitu.
  • Santykis tarp kitų. Juos sieja jų savastys, kurios dalyvauja santvarkoje. The system thus takes the selves as the literal expression of the beings they refer to. The beings may be attached to the system by way of these selves, or they may be detached by way of views that allow for what may be beyond the system. The system does not acknowledge any inner activity within the participants except as it manifests itself with regard to others in the system (those things are which show themselves to be). Yet the participants may be able to allow for what may be beyond the system, they may identify with that, and their identification may shape their participation, so that the primacy of that beyond the system is made evident, and therewith the contingency of the system.
Ištrinta 40 eilutė:
  • Neapibrėžtumas.
Pridėtos 43-48 eilutės:

Suvokimas - išskyrimas

  • Išskyrimas dvasios santvarkoje ir už santvarkos.
  • Išskyrimas dvasios santvarkoje (pirm santvarkos) ir santvarkos dvasios (po santvarkos). Tai ta pati dvasia, tik santvarkos išskirta.
  • Dievas kaip santvarka ir Dievas kaip dvasia yra viena. Dievas kaip santvarka yra suvokimas. Kaip šv.Jono evangelijos pradžioje tvirtinama, tai buvo nuo pradžios, pirm santvarkos jau buvo dvasia santvarkoje.
  • Santvarka iškyla atskiriant pirminį, numatytąjį požiūrį (Dievo, buvimo su, nekintantį, išgyvenantį) nuo nepriklausomo požiūrio (kuris nėra su, įvairiuoja, neišgyvena).
Pakeistos 56-57 eilutės iš
  • Santvarka - šešerybė - žmogus.
į:

Santykių pagrindas

  • Tai kas mus sieja mūsų savastimis.
  • identifies one with one's self, is negation of self, but also affirmation of his self.
  • Būdami savimi - savastimis - pirma esame savimi ir tik paskui esame viena su vienas kitu.
  • Santykis tarp kitų. Juos sieja jų savastys, kurios dalyvauja santvarkoje. The system thus takes the selves as the literal expression of the beings they refer to. The beings may be attached to the system by way of these selves, or they may be detached by way of views that allow for what may be beyond the system. The system does not acknowledge any inner activity within the participants except as it manifests itself with regard to others in the system (those things are which show themselves to be). Yet the participants may be able to allow for what may be beyond the system, they may identify with that, and their identification may shape their participation, so that the primacy of that beyond the system is made evident, and therewith the contingency of the system.
2021 vasario 19 d., 20:00 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 42-44 eilutės:
  • Tai kas mus sieja mūsų savastimis.
  • identifies one with one's self, is negation of self, but also affirmation of his self.
  • Būdami savimi - savastimis - pirma esame savimi ir tik paskui esame viena su vienas kitu.
Pridėtos 46-47 eilutės:

Apibrėžimo pagrindas

Ištrintos 48-52 eilutės:
  • that which relates us through selves.
  • when we are our selves - we are first our selves, and only than are we one with each other.

Kitos mintys...

  • Besąlygiškas nebuvimas su. Atskyrimas besąlygiško ir sąlygiško taip kad besąlygiškas nebūtina tenkina sąlygas.
Pakeistos 50-52 eilutės iš

Santvarka

  • identifies one with one's self, is negation of self, but also affirmation of his self.
į:
  • Prielaidų apimtis.

Išryškina Dievo ir žmogaus santykį

  • considers God as being of beyond it.
Pridėta 55 eilutė:
  • Besąlygiškas nebuvimas su. Atskyrimas besąlygiškumo ir sąlygiškumo taip kad besąlygiškumas nebūtinai tenkina sąlygas.
Ištrinta 56 eilutė:
  • is the extent of assumptions
Pakeistos 58-59 eilutės iš
  • considers God as being of beyond it.
į:
2021 vasario 19 d., 19:21 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 32-38 eilutės iš
  • Unconditional NotBeingOneWith. It is the separation of the Unconditional and the Conditional in that the Unconditional need not meet any conditions.
  • The system arises by the separation of the default perspective (God's, which is one with, invariance, Experiencing) and an independent perspective (which is not one with, variance, NotExperiencing).
  • Santvarka yra neapibrėžtumas.
  • Distinction
  • the distinction between the spirit within the system (before the system) and the spirit of the system (after the system). They are the same spirit but distinguished by system. And the fact that system is ultimately characterized as understanding means that this is but an aspect of system as regards God as system. And God as system and God as spirit are one and so it is the spirit within the system that is indeed fundamental as Jesus said, he is there from the beginning.
  • that in which things are manifested (as in, Those things are which show themselves to be.)
  • a relationship amongst [Other others]. They are related by way of their [Self selves]. These selves are the participants of the system. The system thus takes the selves as the literal expression of the beings they refer to. The beings may be attached to the system by way of these selves, or they may be detached by way of views that allow for what may be beyond the system. The system does not acknowledge any inner activity within the participants except as it manifests itself with regard to others in the system (those things are which show themselves to be). Yet the participants may be able to allow for what may be beyond the system, they may identify with that, and their identification may shape their participation, so that the primacy of that beyond the system is made evident, and therewith the contingency of the system.
į:

Suvokimas - išskyrimas

  • Išskyrimas dvasios santvarkoje ir už santvarkos.
  • Išskyrimas dvasios santvarkoje (pirm santvarkos) ir santvarkos dvasios (po santvarkos). Tai ta pati dvasia, tik santvarkos išskirta.
  • Dievas kaip santvarka ir Dievas kaip dvasia yra viena. Dievas kaip santvarka yra suvokimas. Kaip šv.Jono evangelijos pradžioje tvirtinama, tai buvo nuo pradžios, pirm santvarkos jau buvo dvasia santvarkoje.
  • Santvarka iškyla atskiriant pirminį, numatytąjį požiūrį (Dievo, buvimo su, nekintantį, išgyvenantį) nuo nepriklausomo požiūrio (kuris nėra su, įvairiuoja, neišgyvena).

Raiškos pasaulis.

  • Tai kame reiškiasi tatai kas reiškiasi.

Santykių pagrindas

  • Santykis tarp kitų. Juos sieja jų savastys, kurios dalyvauja santvarkoje. The system thus takes the selves as the literal expression of the beings they refer to. The beings may be attached to the system by way of these selves, or they may be detached by way of views that allow for what may be beyond the system. The system does not acknowledge any inner activity within the participants except as it manifests itself with regard to others in the system (those things are which show themselves to be). Yet the participants may be able to allow for what may be beyond the system, they may identify with that, and their identification may shape their participation, so that the primacy of that beyond the system is made evident, and therewith the contingency of the system.
Pridėtos 46-49 eilutės:

Kitos mintys...

  • Besąlygiškas nebuvimas su. Atskyrimas besąlygiško ir sąlygiško taip kad besąlygiškas nebūtina tenkina sąlygas.
  • Neapibrėžtumas.
2021 vasario 19 d., 18:44 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėta 50 eilutė:
  • Santvarka - šešerybė - žmogus.
2021 vasario 19 d., 18:42 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 15 eilutė iš:
į:
  • Kaip santvarka išplaukia iš Dievo valios ir amžino gyvenimo?
2021 vasario 17 d., 23:15 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 60-66 eilutės:

Asmenys grindžia save (savo savastį) santvarka. Asmenys savęs atsisako už santvarkos ir save tvirtina santvarkoje:

  • Dievas atsisako savęs visiškai, besąlygiškai
  • Aš atsisakau savęs dalinai, sąlygiškai
  • Tu tvirtini save dalinai, sąlygiškai
  • Kitas tvirtina save visiškai, besąlygiškai (kaip tikslą išlikti)

O kaip suprasti išlikimą? Ryšium su Dievu besąlygiškai ar su savimi?

2021 vasario 17 d., 23:14 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 3 eilutė iš:

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Vaizduotė, Santvarkų nagrinėjimas Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger, Raida

į:

Suvestinė, Išsivertimai, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Vaizduotė, Santvarkų nagrinėjimas Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger, Raida

2021 vasario 17 d., 23:13 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 54-59 eilutės iš

Human is God within a system. God is human beyond any system. So a system distinguishes between those within it and those beyond it.

į:
  • Human is God within a system. God is human beyond any system. So a system distinguishes between those within it and those beyond it.
  • Santvarkoje veiksmas +1 išveda požiūrių lygtį. Toliau šis veiksmas išveda ketverybę, tad juos sudėjus, aštuonerybę. Tačiau tuo pačiu galima visą požiūrių lygtį taikyti iš sandaros, iš trejybės rato, ir tai grindžia dvejybinį periodiškumą, ir taipogi priskiria požiūrių lygtį kiekvienam lygmeniui, tad apibrėžia gyvenimo lygtį.
  • Iš keturių galimybių, dvasia dalyvauja trijose galimybėse. Dvasia nedalyvauja santvarkoje - neišėjime už savęs į save. Ši galimybė parodo, kad dvasia gali nebūti.
  • Trijų matų trejybė grindžia išėjimą už savęs į santvarką, o trejybės ratas grindžia išėjimą už savęs iš santvarkos. Trejybės atvaizdai šias trejybes pavaizduoja. Užtat aplinkybės dvejaip suprastinos, pagal kryptį gilyn ar atgal.
  • Vaizduotė apima šešis atvaizdus dar tuomet kai nėra požiūrių, tad atvaizdai nesuvokti kaip požiūriai į požiūrius.
2021 vasario 03 d., 19:39 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėta 34 eilutė:
  • Santvarka yra neapibrėžtumas.
2021 vasario 02 d., 22:43 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 13-14 eilutės:
  • Kaip santvarkos simetriškumas (nesant dvasios) ir asimetriškumas (esant dvasiai) atspindi skirtumą tarp koordinačių sistemų ir simpleksų? Kaip tai suprasti?
  • Kuria prasme santvarka skiria ar dvasia yra ar nėra?
2021 vasario 02 d., 20:59 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 25-26 eilutės:

Santvarkos brėžinys išsako kokia santvarka yra be dvasios, be išgyventojo, be turinio. Tokia santvarka tuomi prieštarauja sau. Jinai tad subliukšta ir lieka prieštaravimas, Dievas. O šią santvarką galime suprasti kaip asmens būklę. Dievas kaip toks yra trijų matų nurodytame taške, nestabilumo taške. Asmenys apibrėžiami Dievui išeinant už savęs į save, jam įvairiais lygmenimis apibrėžiant santvarką. Be asmenų, tuščia santvarka yra simetriška, Dievo atvirumas trimis matais ir jo uždarumas trejybės ratu vienas kitam prilygsta. Tuo tarpu santvarką išgyvenantiems asmenims pirmenybė teiktina atvirajam Dievui už santvarkos. Užtat jais Dievas yra būtinas. Tuščioje santvarkoje Dievas yra nebūtinas, tačiau tokia santvarka subliūkšta ir prilygsta Dievui.

2021 vasario 02 d., 20:54 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 3 eilutė iš:

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger, Raida

į:

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Vaizduotė, Santvarkų nagrinėjimas Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger, Raida

2021 vasario 02 d., 20:16 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 174 eilutė iš:

Brėžinį sukūriau 2006.02.25. Juo įžvelgiau skirtumą tarp Dievo už santvarkos ir gerumo santvarkoje, taip pat keturis lygmenis. Tai išsako mano supratimą santvarkos, taip pat mano supratimą gyvenimo lygties. Jame yra keturios sąvokos: complete (dvasia), unobstructed (sandara), familiar (atvaizdas), unified (vieningumas).

į:

Brėžinį sukūriau 2006.02.25. Juo įžvelgiau skirtumą tarp Dievo už santvarkos ir gerumo santvarkoje, taip pat keturis lygmenis. Tai išsako mano supratimą santvarkos, taip pat mano supratimą gyvenimo lygties. Tvarką grindžiu keturiomis sąvokomis: complete (dvasia), unobstructed (sandara), familiar (atvaizdas), unified (vieningumas). Taip pat šalia išrašiau aštuonis žodžius kuriais Alexander apibūdina neįvardijamą savybę.

2021 vasario 02 d., 20:14 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 174 eilutė iš:

Brėžinį sukūriau 2006.02.25. Juo įžvelgiau skirtumą tarp Dievo už santvarkos ir gerumo santvarkoje, taip pat keturis lygmenis. Tai išsako mano supratimą santvarkos, taip pat mano supratimą gyvenimo lygties.

į:

Brėžinį sukūriau 2006.02.25. Juo įžvelgiau skirtumą tarp Dievo už santvarkos ir gerumo santvarkoje, taip pat keturis lygmenis. Tai išsako mano supratimą santvarkos, taip pat mano supratimą gyvenimo lygties. Jame yra keturios sąvokos: complete (dvasia), unobstructed (sandara), familiar (atvaizdas), unified (vieningumas).

2021 vasario 02 d., 20:12 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Ištrintos 25-28 eilutės:


Pakeistos 167-178 eilutės iš
  • the entirety of a System, which yields the System by going from beyond the System into the System.
į:
  • the entirety of a System, which yields the System by going from beyond the System into the System.

Minčių raida


Brėžinį sukūriau 2006.02.25. Juo įžvelgiau skirtumą tarp Dievo už santvarkos ir gerumo santvarkoje, taip pat keturis lygmenis. Tai išsako mano supratimą santvarkos, taip pat mano supratimą gyvenimo lygties.


2021 vasario 02 d., 19:50 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 3 eilutė iš:

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger, Minčių raida?

į:

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger, Raida

2021 vasario 02 d., 19:50 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 3 eilutė iš:

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger

į:

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger, Minčių raida?

2021 vasario 02 d., 19:48 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 8-9 eilutės:

系统

2021 vasario 02 d., 19:47 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 3-4 eilutės iš

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome

į:

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Martin Wurzinger

Ištrintos 56-59 eilutės:
Ištrintos 57-58 eilutės:

===System's view===

2021 vasario 02 d., 19:35 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 8-13 eilutės:


Pakeistos 24-29 eilutės iš

Santvarkos išsivystymas

Šiame puslapyje galėčiau išrašyti kaip santvarka išsivysto.

Save modeliuojanti sistema išvystys visko padalinimus (smegenų "global workspace") ir Bott periodiškumą.

į:

Pakeistos 26-28 eilutės iš

Kaip lietuviškai pasakyti "sistemą"?

į:

Ištrintos 29-30 eilutės:

A system is:

Pakeista 40 eilutė iš:

System

į:

Santvarka

Pakeistos 49-50 eilutės iš

===Relationships with regard to System===

į:

Santykiai ryšium su santvarka

Pakeistos 53-108 eilutės iš

===Martin Wurzinger's theory of system===

MartinWurzinger: Firstly, what is a system? The name implies an identifiable Structure as well as a Dynamic. In other words, a 'system' expresses a certain formality while at the same time going through its paces - it 'does something'. The formality is needed because without it we would not be able to label it one way or another, and the 'doing' tells us something about its behaviour. The two are interdependent; the behaviour is classifiable within the terms of its structure, and the structure portrays an ongoing scenario we can follow according to the format we were able to identify.

Andrius: Compare with Christopher Alexander's idea that recurring Activity evokes structure, and structure channels Activity, which I am thinking of as an [AddTwo operation +2] that adds two perspectives to a structure, namely activity and non-activity from which it arises smoothly.

===System - Martin Wurzinger===

MartinWurzinger, [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/livingbytruth/message/547 February 11, 2006]: Thank you Andrius for the interesting letter to Chris Langan's conference regarding CTMU and [EternalLife life after death]. A number of issues have been raised there that at times seem to approach the nature of definition. In that light may I offer a focus that treats those concepts as systems per se (and not more - but certainly not less). For the full details of where I'm coming from see the material on the nature of Mind on [http://members.optusnet.com.au/mwurzinger48 my website]. I would also cite it as a way of introducing myself to the group.

So, here goes!

Firstly, what is a system? The name implies an identifiable Structure as well as a Dynamic. In other words, a 'system' expresses a certain formality while at the same time going through its paces - it 'does something'. The formality is needed because without it we would not be able to label it one way or another, and the 'doing' tells us something about its behaviour. The two are interdependent; the behaviour is classifiable within the terms of its structure, and the structure portrays an ongoing scenario we can follow according to the format we were able to identify.

Andrius: Compare with Christopher Alexander's idea that recurring Activity evokes structure, and structure channels Activity, which I am thinking of as an [AddTwo operation +2] that adds two perspectives to a structure, namely activity and non-activity from which it arises smoothly.

So far the situation might almost seem trivial, but consider: as we observe such a system, we, the Observer, represent a system in its own right and subject to the same definition we have just applied. For the two to work together (ie, we observe something which has meaning to us) the Pattern unfolding before us must in some way find its re-representation in our own minds, otherwise there would be no meaning. This wouldn't require the Observed system to be meaningless in itself, it simply (?) says the system would have no meaning for us.

Andrius: I am grappling with the relationship between Observer and Observed in my Overview of knowing everything.

To have a format entails expectability. But to what extent? In principle there are two options. Either we apply our pre-knowledge about certain objects, in which case another object (meant quite literally) outside the existing format forces us to re-interpret our erstwhile definition of the system. Or, we consider the scenario in terms of functionality, in which case the options multiply (for example, if a coffee table is replaced by a baroque table we need to reconsider, but if we understand the things as 'table' first and foremost then what particular type of table is being presented becomes immaterial - they are all meaningful).

Andrius: I think that EmotionalResponses are driven by Expectations and I write about this in my page on EverythingWishesForAnything.

Our minds are very good at PatternRecognition. A pattern is a format, and paring away the specific detail we arrive at the object's Abstraction, which is another way of saying we have recognised its underlying functionality. By the way, these kind of thought process can be traced in history; Thomas Aquinas for instance not only discusses proportion but moves on to proportionality, something an Aristotle didn't do! That next higher level of abstraction allows him to speculate about human nature far more powerfully than was hitherto the case.

Returning to the observer and the observed, we can say therefore that a given pattern only then becomes Meaningful to us if our Minds are capable of abstracting to a sufficient degree. The problem then becomes - what is 'sufficient'?

Even a table can be abstracted further, take the geological formation known as mesa for example. A mesa is not really a 'platform to put things on', but the semantic link is obvious.

Further abstractions are possible if the system possesses a high enough degree of complexity (such as the mind of Thomas Aquinas), but does not go further than that degree allows (compare Aquinas with the writings of Sartre for example). Since we are dealing with systems, the same can be said about the other side, the observed.

And here we come to the crux of the matter. Any given system consists of its ObjectRelatedContent as well as its [Latency abstractive potential], the former being more limited than the latter as we have seen. Again, this goes for the observer as well as the observed. However, since the system is defined as a 'system' in terms of its Boundaries as they are convenient for the purpose of the current definition, the potential can be raised by extending its boundaries. We still have our system, but now it represents a subsystem within the set of added functionalities. Naturally, we can apply the same process once again and widen our reference further still.

Continuing along that line we come to a point at which our own interpretative capacity (remember, we are the observer) reaches a limit. This limit is reached as soon as our own abstractive potential becomes incongruent in relation to the framework of what we are trying to observe. The observed system doesn't care - it is us who falter and take recourse to SemanticBridges in our attempts at reconciling the outside with what our minds are capable of expressing.

I would suggest that concepts such as 'God', 'Truth' (note the capital T), 'Good' and 'Evil' (likewise) are such semantic bridges. I suspect this is where Andrius' "God seeks ALL good" comes in (but correct me if I'm wrong). After all, we don't really know what 'good' ultimately means because the all-encompassing system of Life contains abstraction potentials far in excess of what we can make of it with our current understanding. I say 'current' because as we come across events which represent instantiated examples of our abstractions our reference system has been extended and our knowledge base has now expanded. The scientific approach of moving from hypothesis to theory and on to established fact follows that line.

The abstractive potential can be termed Latency. It is the inherent latency of any given system that gives rise to its Unfolding, whether such a system happens to be our Mind, an evolving Organism, an EcoSystem, indeed the Universe. Yet a potential is not completely open-ended. It needs the moment-by-moment Instantiation for the following phase to occur (which means I cannot discourse about Aquinas if I haven't learned how to read, I cannot abstract 'table' if I don't know about platforms, or plants and animals cannot exist unless and until something like a solar system has come into being).

And yet... would the latency as we know as of today have existed at the time the universe settled itself into star clusters? We can trace the developmental process from our vantage point, but would a galaxy somehow Know about organic compounds? There is a possible answer, and it touches on what I call Affinities.

For the time being I would be interested in what others have to say about this so far.

The relevance to Andrius' letter lies in the ideas he presents in the context of the Bounded system defined as SelfStanding; to apply "thinking as human" by positing an Anthropomorphic system; talking about Chicago, Bangalore etc as specific subsystems; and asking [Foursome Whether? What? How? Why?] as an application of abstraction processes, and residing within one's own mind at that.

į:

Santvarkos išsivystymas

Save modeliuojanti sistema išvystys visko padalinimus (smegenų "global workspace") ir Bott periodiškumą.

Martin Wurzinger

2021 vasario 02 d., 19:31 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 3-4 eilutės iš

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction

į:

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction, Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome

Pakeista 37 eilutė iš:
  • a relationship amongst [{{Other}} others]. They are related by way of their [{{Self}} selves]. These selves are the participants of the system. The system thus takes the selves as the literal expression of the beings they refer to. The beings may be attached to the system by way of these selves, or they may be detached by way of views that allow for what may be beyond the system. The system does not acknowledge any inner activity within the participants except as it manifests itself with regard to others in the system (those things are which show themselves to be). Yet the participants may be able to allow for what may be beyond the system, they may identify with that, and their identification may shape their participation, so that the primacy of that beyond the system is made evident, and therewith the contingency of the system.
į:
  • a relationship amongst [Other others]. They are related by way of their [Self selves]. These selves are the participants of the system. The system thus takes the selves as the literal expression of the beings they refer to. The beings may be attached to the system by way of these selves, or they may be detached by way of views that allow for what may be beyond the system. The system does not acknowledge any inner activity within the participants except as it manifests itself with regard to others in the system (those things are which show themselves to be). Yet the participants may be able to allow for what may be beyond the system, they may identify with that, and their identification may shape their participation, so that the primacy of that beyond the system is made evident, and therewith the contingency of the system.
Pakeistos 53-54 eilutės iš

{{Human}} is {{God}} within a system. {{God}} is {{human}} beyond any system. So a system distinguishes between those within it and those beyond it.

į:

Human is God within a system. God is human beyond any system. So a system distinguishes between those within it and those beyond it.

Pakeista 57 eilutė iš:

MartinWurzinger: Firstly, what is a system? The name implies an identifiable {{Structure}} as well as a {{Dynamic}}. In other words, a 'system' expresses a certain formality while at the same time going through its paces - it 'does something'. The

į:

MartinWurzinger: Firstly, what is a system? The name implies an identifiable Structure as well as a Dynamic. In other words, a 'system' expresses a certain formality while at the same time going through its paces - it 'does something'. The

Pakeistos 60-61 eilutės iš

{{Andrius}}: Compare with Christopher Alexander's idea that recurring {{Activity}} evokes structure, and structure channels {{Activity}}, which I am thinking of as an [AddTwo operation +2] that adds two perspectives to a structure, namely activity and non-activity from which it arises smoothly.

į:

Andrius: Compare with Christopher Alexander's idea that recurring Activity evokes structure, and structure channels Activity, which I am thinking of as an [AddTwo operation +2] that adds two perspectives to a structure, namely activity and non-activity from which it arises smoothly.

Pakeistos 65-66 eilutės iš

coming from see the material on the nature of {{Mind}} on [http://members.optusnet.com.au/mwurzinger48 my website]. I would also cite it as a way of introducing myself to the group.

į:

coming from see the material on the nature of Mind on [http://members.optusnet.com.au/mwurzinger48 my website]. I would also cite it as a way of introducing myself to the group.

Pakeista 69 eilutė iš:

Firstly, what is a system? The name implies an identifiable {{Structure}} as well as a {{Dynamic}}. In other words, a 'system' expresses a certain formality while at the same time going through its paces - it 'does something'. The

į:

Firstly, what is a system? The name implies an identifiable Structure as well as a Dynamic. In other words, a 'system' expresses a certain formality while at the same time going through its paces - it 'does something'. The

Pakeistos 72-77 eilutės iš

{{Andrius}}: Compare with Christopher Alexander's idea that recurring {{Activity}} evokes structure, and structure channels {{Activity}}, which I am thinking of as an [AddTwo operation +2] that adds two perspectives to a structure, namely activity and non-activity from which it arises smoothly.

So far the situation might almost seem trivial, but consider: as we observe such a system, we, the {{Observer}}, represent a system in its own right and subject to the same definition we have just applied. For the two to work together (ie, we observe something which has meaning to us) the {{Pattern}} unfolding before us must in some way find its re-representation in our own minds, otherwise there would be no meaning. This wouldn't require the {{Observed}} system to be meaningless in itself, it simply (?) says the system would have no meaning for us.

{{Andrius}}: I am grappling with the relationship between {{Observer}} and {{Observed}} in my {{Overview}} of knowing everything.

į:

Andrius: Compare with Christopher Alexander's idea that recurring Activity evokes structure, and structure channels Activity, which I am thinking of as an [AddTwo operation +2] that adds two perspectives to a structure, namely activity and non-activity from which it arises smoothly.

So far the situation might almost seem trivial, but consider: as we observe such a system, we, the Observer, represent a system in its own right and subject to the same definition we have just applied. For the two to work together (ie, we observe something which has meaning to us) the Pattern unfolding before us must in some way find its re-representation in our own minds, otherwise there would be no meaning. This wouldn't require the Observed system to be meaningless in itself, it simply (?) says the system would have no meaning for us.

Andrius: I am grappling with the relationship between Observer and Observed in my Overview of knowing everything.

Pakeistos 82-86 eilutės iš

{{Andrius}}: I think that EmotionalResponses are driven by {{Expectations}} and I write about this in my page on EverythingWishesForAnything.

Our minds are very good at PatternRecognition. A pattern is a format, and paring away the specific detail we arrive at the object's {{Abstraction}}, which is another way of saying we have recognised its underlying functionality. By the way, these kind of thought process can be traced in history; Thomas Aquinas for instance not only discusses proportion but moves on to proportionality, something an Aristotle didn't do! That next higher level of abstraction allows him to speculate about human nature far more powerfully than was hitherto the case.

Returning to the observer and the observed, we can say therefore that a given pattern only then becomes {{Meaningful}} to us if our {{Minds}} are capable of abstracting to a sufficient degree. The problem then becomes - what is

į:

Andrius: I think that EmotionalResponses are driven by Expectations and I write about this in my page on EverythingWishesForAnything.

Our minds are very good at PatternRecognition. A pattern is a format, and paring away the specific detail we arrive at the object's Abstraction, which is another way of saying we have recognised its underlying functionality. By the way, these kind of thought process can be traced in history; Thomas Aquinas for instance not only discusses proportion but moves on to proportionality, something an Aristotle didn't do! That next higher level of abstraction allows him to speculate about human nature far more powerfully than was hitherto the case.

Returning to the observer and the observed, we can say therefore that a given pattern only then becomes Meaningful to us if our Minds are capable of abstracting to a sufficient degree. The problem then becomes - what is

Pakeistos 93-94 eilutės iš

And here we come to the crux of the matter. Any given system consists of its ObjectRelatedContent as well as its [{{Latency}} abstractive potential], the former being more limited than the latter as we have seen. Again, this goes for the observer as well as the observed. However, since the system is defined as a 'system' in terms of its {{Boundaries}} as they are convenient for the

į:

And here we come to the crux of the matter. Any given system consists of its ObjectRelatedContent as well as its [Latency abstractive potential], the former being more limited than the latter as we have seen. Again, this goes for the observer as well as the observed. However, since the system is defined as a 'system' in terms of its Boundaries as they are convenient for the

Pakeistos 104-107 eilutės iš

The abstractive potential can be termed {{Latency}}. It is the inherent latency of any given system that gives rise to its {{Unfolding}}, whether such a system happens to be our {{Mind}}, an evolving {{Organism}}, an EcoSystem, indeed the {{Universe}}. Yet a potential is not completely open-ended. It needs the moment-by-moment {{Instantiation}} for the following phase to occur (which means I cannot discourse about Aquinas if I haven't learned how to read, I cannot abstract 'table' if I don't know about platforms, or plants and animals cannot exist unless and until something like a solar system has come into being).

And yet... would the latency as we know as of today have existed at the time the universe settled itself into star clusters? We can trace the developmental process from our vantage point, but would a galaxy somehow {{Know}} about organic compounds? There is a possible answer, and it touches on what I call {{Affinities}}.

į:

The abstractive potential can be termed Latency. It is the inherent latency of any given system that gives rise to its Unfolding, whether such a system happens to be our Mind, an evolving Organism, an EcoSystem, indeed the Universe. Yet a potential is not completely open-ended. It needs the moment-by-moment Instantiation for the following phase to occur (which means I cannot discourse about Aquinas if I haven't learned how to read, I cannot abstract 'table' if I don't know about platforms, or plants and animals cannot exist unless and until something like a solar system has come into being).

And yet... would the latency as we know as of today have existed at the time the universe settled itself into star clusters? We can trace the developmental process from our vantage point, but would a galaxy somehow Know about organic compounds? There is a possible answer, and it touches on what I call Affinities.

Pakeistos 110-111 eilutės iš

The relevance to Andrius' letter lies in the ideas he presents in the context of the {{Bounded}} system defined as SelfStanding; to apply "thinking as human" by positing an {{Anthropomorphic}} system; talking about Chicago, Bangalore etc as specific subsystems; and asking [{{Foursome}} Whether? What? How? Why?] as an application of abstraction processes, and residing within one's own mind at that.

į:

The relevance to Andrius' letter lies in the ideas he presents in the context of the Bounded system defined as SelfStanding; to apply "thinking as human" by positing an Anthropomorphic system; talking about Chicago, Bangalore etc as specific subsystems; and asking [Foursome Whether? What? How? Why?] as an application of abstraction processes, and residing within one's own mind at that.

Pakeistos 120-123 eilutės iš

{{System}}, {{Self}}, {{Other}}

A {{System}} is that which is its own {{Self}}. One's self is that by which one relates to others, that is, other selves. A {{System}} is thus a relationship amongst [{{Other}} others]. They are related by way of their [{{Self}} selves]. These selves are the participants of the system. The system is thus formal and takes the selves as the literal expression of the beings they refer to. The beings may be attached to the system by way of these selves, or they may be detached by way of views that allow for what may be beyond the system. The system does not acknowledge any inner activity within the participants except as it manifests itself with regard to others in the system (those things are which show themselves to be). Yet the participants may be able to allow for what may be beyond the system - {{Spirit}}, they may identify with that, and their identification may shape their participation, so that the primacy of that beyond the system is made evident, and therewith the contingency of the system.

į:

System, Self, Other

A System is that which is its own Self. One's self is that by which one relates to others, that is, other selves. A System is thus a relationship amongst [Other others]. They are related by way of their [Self selves]. These selves are the participants of the system. The system is thus formal and takes the selves as the literal expression of the beings they refer to. The beings may be attached to the system by way of these selves, or they may be detached by way of views that allow for what may be beyond the system. The system does not acknowledge any inner activity within the participants except as it manifests itself with regard to others in the system (those things are which show themselves to be). Yet the participants may be able to allow for what may be beyond the system - Spirit, they may identify with that, and their identification may shape their participation, so that the primacy of that beyond the system is made evident, and therewith the contingency of the system.

Pakeistos 126-127 eilutės iš

{{System}}, {{Definition}}

į:

System, Definition

Pakeistos 138-139 eilutės iš

{{Unfolding}}

į:

Unfolding

Pakeistos 145-152 eilutės iš

{{Life}}, {{Love}}

The system has {{Life}}, but the system does not have {{Love}}, which is the support of life. Love is from beyond the system. In order to support life, and have love, one needs to separate love from freedom, which is to say, identify love within the will, but this then separates what is beyond the system from what is within it. System conflates unity and completeness. System arises as an alternative to God which God allows for. It is that which was beyond God and which he ever goes into. As such the system presents itself to human (to God within itself) as primary. The system is not "one with" but rather distinguishes itself from its participants, in that it is its own self, whereas they are not it, except by way of their selves, and dismisses that which their selves might refer to outside of the system. Humans are generally attached to self. The system allows for human (who is by his nature one with) only as an expression of such a relationship within the system, where the system wishes that the unity within the system and the unity beyond the system be conflated. But God enters into the system as unity (and {{Love}}) which is distinct from freedom thus allowing human to have a will and distinguish themselves from God's will. Love lets a human separate the components of his will - love and freedom - and prefer love - and thus keep the components separate. Thus a human is able to acknowledge God as distinct from himself, and ultimately to prefer God over himself, thus separating God beyond system and good within system, and being one with God. I want to think about the role of Jesus Christ (through human by way of good will) and the Holy Spirit (through human by way of wisdom).

{{Self}}, {{View}}

Our {{Self}} is that by which we are attached to this system, and presume ourselves in it. Our {{View}} is that by which we are detached from this system, and allow for what is beyond it. We attach ourselves by conflating one's being within a system and one's being beyond it. We detach ourselves by separating one's being within a system from one's being beyond it.

į:

Life, Love

The system has Life, but the system does not have Love, which is the support of life. Love is from beyond the system. In order to support life, and have love, one needs to separate love from freedom, which is to say, identify love within the will, but this then separates what is beyond the system from what is within it. System conflates unity and completeness. System arises as an alternative to God which God allows for. It is that which was beyond God and which he ever goes into. As such the system presents itself to human (to God within itself) as primary. The system is not "one with" but rather distinguishes itself from its participants, in that it is its own self, whereas they are not it, except by way of their selves, and dismisses that which their selves might refer to outside of the system. Humans are generally attached to self. The system allows for human (who is by his nature one with) only as an expression of such a relationship within the system, where the system wishes that the unity within the system and the unity beyond the system be conflated. But God enters into the system as unity (and Love) which is distinct from freedom thus allowing human to have a will and distinguish themselves from God's will. Love lets a human separate the components of his will - love and freedom - and prefer love - and thus keep the components separate. Thus a human is able to acknowledge God as distinct from himself, and ultimately to prefer God over himself, thus separating God beyond system and good within system, and being one with God. I want to think about the role of Jesus Christ (through human by way of good will) and the Holy Spirit (through human by way of wisdom).

Self, View

Our Self is that by which we are attached to this system, and presume ourselves in it. Our View is that by which we are detached from this system, and allow for what is beyond it. We attach ourselves by conflating one's being within a system and one's being beyond it. We detach ourselves by separating one's being within a system from one's being beyond it.

Pakeistos 157-158 eilutės iš

{{Participants}}

į:

Participants

Pakeistos 217-218 eilutės iš

This is to say that human is a LostChild. Human is in God's situation but does not yet know that he is God. In this, he is a child of God, and as such, ultimately God, who grows to all of God by coinciding with God, by allowing for God beyond the system, and defering to him. God supports this growth by entering the system as the external ground for the essence of the system (increasingly focused as {{Structure}}, {{Representation}}, {{Unity}}), hence as a unity, hence as love, which is how the system is able to relate beyond itself, for in being loved it enjoys the unity by which and through which it may likewise love by making the path to that unity available to others further and further out, ultimately to God. Love fosters life by being that unity which serves as the reference point that makes possible life's unity (the will) which defines itself in terms of it, as the focus of perfect love. {{Love}} is a {{Unity}} (God's unity - which is in this world) deep inside of us that we revolve around, (the collapsing point and the object of the {{Omniscope}}) and we can therefore likewise point others to it when we identify not with our self in this system, but with our (shared) view upon this point, and ultimately with God (and our enemy). This point of (God's) unity which we may share is how we are able to identify with each other, and even so, how we ourselves are able to be ourselves most intensely (our {{Will}} is {{Perfection}} by {{Love}}), and by identifying further and further out, we manifest ourselves most fully. JesusChrist, as he describes himself with his "I am..." statements?, is a bridge between (and coinciding of) human's view within the system ({{Life}} is the goodness of God) and God's view beyond the system (EternalLife is {{Understanding}} the goodness of God, thus holding the two separate). (As in: I am the resurrection and the life, I am the true vine, and so on.) Human grows in understanding by allowing for (the possibility of) God within the system ever more intimately, being open to ever more focused life and love, so that human has the maturity of the lost child who goes where his parent will look for him, which is to say, in the depths of the system, hence in unity. He then accepts the centrality of God and steps with him more and more beyond the system. In this way he roots his BeingOneWith with his {{View}} (which may coincide with God's) rather than with his {{Self}} (which is of the system). Inside the system we shift from identifying ourselves with everything (or anything or something) to ultimately identifying ourselves with slack - so that we ground ourselves less and less within this system, and more with God beyond it. Thus we shift from orienting ourselves around the negation of the representations of the onesome (and the properties of everything) to the negation of the representations of the nullsome (and the properties of God).

į:

This is to say that human is a LostChild. Human is in God's situation but does not yet know that he is God. In this, he is a child of God, and as such, ultimately God, who grows to all of God by coinciding with God, by allowing for God beyond the system, and defering to him. God supports this growth by entering the system as the external ground for the essence of the system (increasingly focused as Structure, Representation, Unity), hence as a unity, hence as love, which is how the system is able to relate beyond itself, for in being loved it enjoys the unity by which and through which it may likewise love by making the path to that unity available to others further and further out, ultimately to God. Love fosters life by being that unity which serves as the reference point that makes possible life's unity (the will) which defines itself in terms of it, as the focus of perfect love. Love is a Unity (God's unity - which is in this world) deep inside of us that we revolve around, (the collapsing point and the object of the Omniscope) and we can therefore likewise point others to it when we identify not with our self in this system, but with our (shared) view upon this point, and ultimately with God (and our enemy). This point of (God's) unity which we may share is how we are able to identify with each other, and even so, how we ourselves are able to be ourselves most intensely (our Will is Perfection by Love), and by identifying further and further out, we manifest ourselves most fully. JesusChrist, as he describes himself with his "I am..." statements?, is a bridge between (and coinciding of) human's view within the system (Life is the goodness of God) and God's view beyond the system (EternalLife is Understanding the goodness of God, thus holding the two separate). (As in: I am the resurrection and the life, I am the true vine, and so on.) Human grows in understanding by allowing for (the possibility of) God within the system ever more intimately, being open to ever more focused life and love, so that human has the maturity of the lost child who goes where his parent will look for him, which is to say, in the depths of the system, hence in unity. He then accepts the centrality of God and steps with him more and more beyond the system. In this way he roots his BeingOneWith with his View (which may coincide with God's) rather than with his Self (which is of the system). Inside the system we shift from identifying ourselves with everything (or anything or something) to ultimately identifying ourselves with slack - so that we ground ourselves less and less within this system, and more with God beyond it. Thus we shift from orienting ourselves around the negation of the representations of the onesome (and the properties of everything) to the negation of the representations of the nullsome (and the properties of God).

Ištrintos 222-223 eilutės:

See also: Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Overview

2021 vasario 02 d., 19:30 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 13-16 eilutės:


2021 vasario 02 d., 19:27 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeista 3 eilutė iš:

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction

į:

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Priėjimai prie visumos, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction

2021 vasario 02 d., 19:27 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 1-8 eilutės iš

Žr. Suvedimas?, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction

į:

Suvestinė, Dievas, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction

Kaip santvarka išsako viską?


2020 gegužės 06 d., 16:50 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 6-11 eilutės:

Santvarkos išsivystymas

Šiame puslapyje galėčiau išrašyti kaip santvarka išsivysto.

Save modeliuojanti sistema išvystys visko padalinimus (smegenų "global workspace") ir Bott periodiškumą.

2018 spalio 03 d., 18:43 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pakeistos 1-4 eilutės iš

System

išryškėja netroškimais, o prieš tai tėra sąlygos. Trokštame - Dievas mumyse - sutampame su juo. Netrokštame - Dievas už mūsų - nesutampame su juo.

į:

Žr. Suvedimas?, Žemėlapynas, Santykiai, Savastis, Ir du, Kitas, Dvasia, Distinction, Indistinction

Santvarka išryškėja netroškimais, o prieš tai tėra sąlygos. Trokštame - Dievas mumyse - sutampame su juo. Netrokštame - Dievas už mūsų - nesutampame su juo.

Pakeistos 9-11 eilutės iš

See also: {{Overview}}, Spirit, Distinction, Indistinction, [AddTwo +2], {{Self}}, {{Other}}, {{Relationship}}, Structure

===What is a system?===

į:

Kaip lietuviškai pasakyti "sistemą"?

Kas yra santvarka (sistema)?

2018 spalio 03 d., 18:42 atliko AndriusKulikauskas -
Pridėtos 2-3 eilutės:

išryškėja netroškimais, o prieš tai tėra sąlygos. Trokštame - Dievas mumyse - sutampame su juo. Netrokštame - Dievas už mūsų - nesutampame su juo.

2014 birželio 09 d., 22:02 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pakeistos 203-209 eilutės iš
į:

Sandaros visuma

See also: Negation, Activity, Structure, RepresentationOfTheNullsome, Overview

Total Structure

  • is the sum of assumptions
  • the entirety of a System, which yields the System by going from beyond the System into the System.
2014 birželio 09 d., 19:12 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pakeistos 93-201 eilutės iš
į:

Santvarkos požiūris

===System's view===

Human gradually takes up the thinking of the system that he finds himself in, until he can separate himself from it (by virtue of being loved).

Human's view leads to a trinity of love (by way of the sixsome).

{{System}}, {{Self}}, {{Other}}

A {{System}} is that which is its own {{Self}}. One's self is that by which one relates to others, that is, other selves. A {{System}} is thus a relationship amongst [{{Other}} others]. They are related by way of their [{{Self}} selves]. These selves are the participants of the system. The system is thus formal and takes the selves as the literal expression of the beings they refer to. The beings may be attached to the system by way of these selves, or they may be detached by way of views that allow for what may be beyond the system. The system does not acknowledge any inner activity within the participants except as it manifests itself with regard to others in the system (those things are which show themselves to be). Yet the participants may be able to allow for what may be beyond the system - {{Spirit}}, they may identify with that, and their identification may shape their participation, so that the primacy of that beyond the system is made evident, and therewith the contingency of the system.

(Note that we should love God with All our heart, soul, mind, body, but we should only love our neighbor As our Self.)

{{System}}, {{Definition}}

System IS definition. Definition arises as system. That is why system is formal. That is why "a system is that which is its own self". For, as I noted, by defining we are observing and yet also creating. By defining, we equate what we refer to with what we refer by. In a system, formality IS reality. That is the ultimate problem with system: reality can be more than formality.

  • God is the undefined.

Thus, God can stand alone. God needs no "self" because God is prior to any system. The nature of God is "to be one with", which upon definition means "to not be restricted by one's self". (God's self is "everything" and he goes beyond that.) God manifests his nature by going beyond himself, that is going from the unbounded into the bounded. He first goes beyond himself and thereby generates his "self" which is the "undefined" (and which later is thought of as "everything"). He then goes beyond himself further by allowing for a perspective beyond the "undefined", which is to say, where there is no "undefined", and yet even there he appears. That is the perspective of "definition" (which does not allow the undefined) and yet wherein the "undefined" arises as the "defined" (for the defined, as an outcome of definition, was ultimately undefined). This second perspective is thus the coexisting of opposites, "definition" and "defined":

  • system is definition
  • human is the defined (and thus the undefined within definition)

At this point ("the second day of creation") human and world are not self-standing, they are understood as opposites that must be taken together, and more structure is needed to tease them apart. I'm just sharing my conclusion (with your help) that God, human, system (or the undefined, defined, definition) are (and should be) at the very root of how all things unfold.

{{Unfolding}}

I consider this unfolding process as the unfolding of definitions. That is why I work in terms of so many definitions. It is not that I am myself defining terms. Rather, I am observing definitions. I am observing how definitions unfold from each other, but especially in our minds. Anybody can define complex terms in terms of primitive ones. But how do we define the primitive ones? That is what I am focusing on. I have found that it can be done, but with a pre-logical, pre-systemic kind of thinking. Indeed, the concepts most relevant to my life are pre-systemic because they help me separate myself from the system ("the world") that we find ourselves in. There is a lot of pressure for us to just consider ourselves part of the system, just consider ourselves as "selves", for that matter. Whereas it is possible and attractive to root ourselves outside of this system, even as we are in it, so that we can shape it rather than be shaped by it, live as creators rather than as creations. There is a conflict between the system and its latency, and we may choose which to root ourselves in.

{{Life}}, {{Love}}

The system has {{Life}}, but the system does not have {{Love}}, which is the support of life. Love is from beyond the system. In order to support life, and have love, one needs to separate love from freedom, which is to say, identify love within the will, but this then separates what is beyond the system from what is within it. System conflates unity and completeness. System arises as an alternative to God which God allows for. It is that which was beyond God and which he ever goes into. As such the system presents itself to human (to God within itself) as primary. The system is not "one with" but rather distinguishes itself from its participants, in that it is its own self, whereas they are not it, except by way of their selves, and dismisses that which their selves might refer to outside of the system. Humans are generally attached to self. The system allows for human (who is by his nature one with) only as an expression of such a relationship within the system, where the system wishes that the unity within the system and the unity beyond the system be conflated. But God enters into the system as unity (and {{Love}}) which is distinct from freedom thus allowing human to have a will and distinguish themselves from God's will. Love lets a human separate the components of his will - love and freedom - and prefer love - and thus keep the components separate. Thus a human is able to acknowledge God as distinct from himself, and ultimately to prefer God over himself, thus separating God beyond system and good within system, and being one with God. I want to think about the role of Jesus Christ (through human by way of good will) and the Holy Spirit (through human by way of wisdom).

{{Self}}, {{View}}

Our {{Self}} is that by which we are attached to this system, and presume ourselves in it. Our {{View}} is that by which we are detached from this system, and allow for what is beyond it. We attach ourselves by conflating one's being within a system and one's being beyond it. We detach ourselves by separating one's being within a system from one's being beyond it.

We are created with a self, we are not separated from our self, we find ourselves within a system. Our mission is to not be restricted by the system, but to go beyond it by going beyond ourselves, by separating ourselves from our selves.

Humans are grounded within the system, and therefore that is what there outlook needs to be grounded in. This is what gives rise to the four levels in which "being one with" is understood. How do the questions arise further? (Foursome, fivesome, sixsome?) Humans are taught by the system they find themselves in, until they are taught by God beyond the system - this is the tension between Son of Man and Son of God. This is the logic that Jesus offers. Perhaps this happens by allowing for the system to teach us from its point of view, where that leads us.

{{Participants}}

A system distinguishes between itself (its own self) and its participants (other selves). A participant is a relationship between what is within a system and what is beyond it (that is, between a self and its referent). A human is the mrelationship between God within a system and beyond the system. That relationship may itself be either within the system or beyond it (and so human may be either within the system (when God and good are conflated) or beyond it (when they are taken separately)). The system is distinct from the partimcipants, from the others, because the system is its own referent, it does not allow for itself beyond itself. Thus the system wishes to claim that it is complete, which is to say that only the selves (what is within the system) actually matter, which is to say that their relationships are within the system rather than beyond it. The system considers BeingOneWith in terms of expressions (relations among selves). These expressions may be interpreted within or beyond the system, and within or beyond the participants. With regard to the system, being one is interpreted:

  • beyond any system as: completeness
  • beyond any participant as: structure (unobstruction)
  • within any participant as: representation (familiarity)
  • within any system as: unity.

These interpretations are the vantage points of (and contexts for):

  • God beyond the system (God, everything, wishing, love)
  • Human beyond the system (eternal life, wisdom, good will, God's will)
  • Human within the system (life, anything, choosing, will)
  • God within the system (good, slack, identifying, freedom)

They have us think in terms of:

  • completeness: operating principles - God within us (life, eternal life) - soft truth
  • structure: counterquestions - other within us (anything, wisdom)
  • representation: emotional responses - other beyond us (choosing, good will)
  • unity: life choices - God beyond us (will, God's will) - hard truth

These describe variously God's "being one with" across the system; the system's making sense of God and human and their relationship; human's distinction between themselves and God. How are these all relevant within the unfolding of structure? The human's distinction arises through the primary structures. But where do the four equations enter into play? They are part of the big picture, but where also do they occur? And what do they express - yet perhaps the question of human and God's relationship? So that the system finds significance as an open question rather than a closed system. Perhaps the four equations are how the system connects the two hierarchies (for observer and observed); then the human lives these out at each level as a distinction between God and human; and then God's vantage point (beyond system but into system) is able to put together the general equation by transcending the system after human has lived it.

The main empirical question is: Are we loved? If we are, then that love must be based beyond any system. For a system is centered around itself, its own unity. If we are at the center, then it is by something greater than the system. And as we are loved, then we can also love, until our love grows so that we may identify and coincide with God. So this is the empirical question which accompanies our theoretical thinking. If we are not loved, then there is no distinction between good or God. Slack becomes set, life becomes mechanical, and there is no eternal life. Whereas if we are loved, then not only are we alive now, but there is a concern that we be alive in general, and so we are in that sense eternally alive. The empirical question is important because we do find ourselves in this system, and it defines us as humans, and so we go beyond the system by accepting it as our source of evidence.

Our self is that by which we are human (life, anything, choosing, will) and our view is that by which we are God (eternal life, wisdom, good will, God's will).

How does participant arise? And how do these levels relate to access by Observer to Observed by way of everything, anything, something or nothing? Recall the "being one with" between them and the observational plane - this gives the extents to which they can be one with.

We are able to choose between self and view when each is expressed in terms of unity, as will and God's will, and so as a choice between hard truths.

We allow for God by acknowledging the intensity in which he may be present in this world. We allow for everything (the structure of God), and then for four kinds of wishing (representations of everything - wishing for nothing=self-sufficient, for something=certain, for anything=calm, for everything=loving), and then for love (as the unity of wishing). By allowing for love (in that we are loved) we are able to have a will. For love (as the unity of the representations of the structure of God) is the unity that serves as the reference point for the will, which is perfect as the freedom due to love. (I note that: the structure of life is anything, the representations of anything are six ways of choosing, and will is their unity; and that the structure of good is slack, the representations of slack are two ways of identifying, and freedom is their unity; and that life is God's goodness, anything is everything plus slack, choosing is wishing or identifying, will is love's granted freedom.) Love is that point of unity which our will revolves around and which lets us let go of our "self" in this world and latch on, instead, to a "view" that is broader than this world. By acknowledging the real difference between us in this world and God beyond this world, we are able to operate in terms of eternal life (the understanding of God's goodness) which is given by keeping separate God (beyond the system) and good (within the system). The unity of love is a distinct point of reference that is not muddled by anybody's freedom. As humans we can then share views (and love) with those farther and farther beyond ourselves by ever referencing this point of love, until ultimately we can love even our enemy (and God) as we share view with God. In this way, our participation in this system becomes ever less a matter of entrenchment or attachment, and ever more a choice from love. We think in terms of God's will (the holding separate of love and freedom), good will (the holding separate of wishing and identifying), wisdom (the holding separate of everything and slack) and eternal life (the holding separate of God and good). We are able to move from thinking of ourselves as "everything" (or "anything" or "something") within this world to simply the "slack" within this world as the form which goodness takes, so that we are not falsely but truly God within the system - born of the God beyond any system. We step outside of the system, with God, by way of four PrimaryStructures.

  • The life choices (the eightfold way) allow us to see (will) through God's eyes, and be seen (God's will) through his eyes - this is God beyond us.
  • The directions to the good allow us to see (choosing) through another's eyes, and be seen (good will) through their eyes - this is the other beyond us.
  • The counterquestions allow us to see through another's eyes (anything), and be seen through their eyes (wisdom) - but this is the other within us.
  • The operating principles allow us to see (life) through God's eyes, and be seen through his eyes (eternal life) - but this is the God who lies within us.

In this way, once we acknowledge God outside of us - and clearly distinct from us - then we can move so that he is more and more within us, through others outside and then inside, and finally through God inside of us, looking through us, rather than us looking through him. So here we move from hard truth (how things look to us) inwards to soft truth (how things look to God) so that we might love God (and enemy).

And then, rooted outside of the system, we may live within the system by way of six SecondaryStructures which indicate our growth together with God.

We have two chains: one by which God is Observer, and human is God within a system, and the other by which God is Observed, and God is human beyond any system, so that God is ever defering to that which is in the greater context.

In the one chain, first there is only God, but human evolves from him as structure - that is one story. In the other chain, first there is only the human (as the omniscope), but God is allowed for the view that sees through the human, with ever more views coming into play. And there is another story whereby the two match up (which defers to which? perhaps structure to view?). This is perhaps the trinity, three kinds of coherence - the Father is the coherence of God, the Son is the coherence of the world, the Spirit is coherence of coherence.

By starting with God and human and their relationship, we can consider two stories:

  • How God goes beyond himself and gives rise to human as structure, so that our life unfolds.
  • How human opens himself to allow for God, and an ever richer view, in which more views coincide.

And then there is the question of how these two stories coincide, matching structure and view:

  • God into whom all collapses is the view directly upon the omniscope.
  • ?
  • ?
  • ?

These six aspects should match the six representations. Their unity is the will. Whereas separately unifying the two (as freedom) and the four (as love), and keeping them separate, is God's will. We can then project this equation back outside of the system, so that we know about life, good, God and eternal life. This then yields the framework for human and their relationship with God.

Human is beyond system as: God's will, good will, wisdom and eternal life. These all are expressions of Human who has gone beyond the system and hence is one with God. This sequence starts with complete deference and ends with complete coinciding of God and human. The complete deference to God's will shows that even when there is no access between God and human, it is possible for them to be connected by way of human's submission to God. Then the access opens up, so that good will is access by way of something - a channel for good, and wisdom is access by way of anything - a point to focus around, and finally eternal life is access by way of everything. Meanwhile, life (as the goodness of God) is the fact that Human can be as such within a system, and thus not comparable to God, but simply a creation of God. Whereas eternal life has him as a creator, a co-creator along with God. And good is the "system" which distinguishes these possibilities and relates God and human.

God is "being one with" as such, everything is "being one with" as structure, wishing is "being one with" as representation, love is "being one with" as unity. When we love, we place our loved one in the center, and so they are our unity, our hub.

This is to say that human is a LostChild. Human is in God's situation but does not yet know that he is God. In this, he is a child of God, and as such, ultimately God, who grows to all of God by coinciding with God, by allowing for God beyond the system, and defering to him. God supports this growth by entering the system as the external ground for the essence of the system (increasingly focused as {{Structure}}, {{Representation}}, {{Unity}}), hence as a unity, hence as love, which is how the system is able to relate beyond itself, for in being loved it enjoys the unity by which and through which it may likewise love by making the path to that unity available to others further and further out, ultimately to God. Love fosters life by being that unity which serves as the reference point that makes possible life's unity (the will) which defines itself in terms of it, as the focus of perfect love. {{Love}} is a {{Unity}} (God's unity - which is in this world) deep inside of us that we revolve around, (the collapsing point and the object of the {{Omniscope}}) and we can therefore likewise point others to it when we identify not with our self in this system, but with our (shared) view upon this point, and ultimately with God (and our enemy). This point of (God's) unity which we may share is how we are able to identify with each other, and even so, how we ourselves are able to be ourselves most intensely (our {{Will}} is {{Perfection}} by {{Love}}), and by identifying further and further out, we manifest ourselves most fully. JesusChrist, as he describes himself with his "I am..." statements?, is a bridge between (and coinciding of) human's view within the system ({{Life}} is the goodness of God) and God's view beyond the system (EternalLife is {{Understanding}} the goodness of God, thus holding the two separate). (As in: I am the resurrection and the life, I am the true vine, and so on.) Human grows in understanding by allowing for (the possibility of) God within the system ever more intimately, being open to ever more focused life and love, so that human has the maturity of the lost child who goes where his parent will look for him, which is to say, in the depths of the system, hence in unity. He then accepts the centrality of God and steps with him more and more beyond the system. In this way he roots his BeingOneWith with his {{View}} (which may coincide with God's) rather than with his {{Self}} (which is of the system). Inside the system we shift from identifying ourselves with everything (or anything or something) to ultimately identifying ourselves with slack - so that we ground ourselves less and less within this system, and more with God beyond it. Thus we shift from orienting ourselves around the negation of the representations of the onesome (and the properties of everything) to the negation of the representations of the nullsome (and the properties of God).

I write boldly, but I feel that I'm on track, at least as a follower of Christ. I think that the above is very much in the spirit of Jesus's prayer to God in John 17, as in "I pray not that you would take them from the world, but that you would keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world even as I am not of the world. ... Not for these only do I pray, but for those also who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me." Also, if we are truly "children of God" (at least when we do as God does), then I would find it strange if we don't grow up to be God, and as there already is the possibility of God, that we merge with that possibility and defer to it, thus living in a context of "eternal life", even if we are not (yet) the one who may ground it. I think what I have written is also compatible with and relevant for all manner of outlooks, including Buddhism or Islam or atheism. Or at least I hope to learn more as I seek truth.

2014 birželio 09 d., 19:11 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pridėtos 6-94 eilutės:

See also: {{Overview}}, Spirit, Distinction, Indistinction, [AddTwo +2], {{Self}}, {{Other}}, {{Relationship}}, Structure

===What is a system?===

A system is:

  • Unconditional NotBeingOneWith. It is the separation of the Unconditional and the Conditional in that the Unconditional need not meet any conditions.
  • The system arises by the separation of the default perspective (God's, which is one with, invariance, Experiencing) and an independent perspective (which is not one with, variance, NotExperiencing).
  • Distinction
  • the distinction between the spirit within the system (before the system) and the spirit of the system (after the system). They are the same spirit but distinguished by system. And the fact that system is ultimately characterized as understanding means that this is but an aspect of system as regards God as system. And God as system and God as spirit are one and so it is the spirit within the system that is indeed fundamental as Jesus said, he is there from the beginning.
  • that in which things are manifested (as in, Those things are which show themselves to be.)
  • a relationship amongst [{{Other}} others]. They are related by way of their [{{Self}} selves]. These selves are the participants of the system. The system thus takes the selves as the literal expression of the beings they refer to. The beings may be attached to the system by way of these selves, or they may be detached by way of views that allow for what may be beyond the system. The system does not acknowledge any inner activity within the participants except as it manifests itself with regard to others in the system (those things are which show themselves to be). Yet the participants may be able to allow for what may be beyond the system, they may identify with that, and their identification may shape their participation, so that the primacy of that beyond the system is made evident, and therewith the contingency of the system.
  • what allows for definition, as it identifies itself with its self, so what it refers to and what it refers by are one and the same. It IS a formality. God is the undefined, and human is the defined.
  • that which relates us through selves.
  • when we are our selves - we are first our selves, and only than are we one with each other.

System

  • identifies one with one's self, is negation of self, but also affirmation of his self.
  • clarifies the relationship of God and Person by defining existence and nonexistence, thus NotBeingOneWith and NotGod.
  • separates God from himself, thus negates him.
  • is the extent of assumptions
  • (“the world”) is NotBeingOneWith, negation, semantic distinction of God (beyond Scope) and Self - NotGod (within Scope), distinction (which is the basis for negation) of having properties and accepting them, the distinction of levels, the framework for meaning, the establishment of vantage points for taking up or not. System allows for NotGod, Scope, Person, Knowledge, Definition. System as the Twosome relates Theory and Facts as identifications of God and NotGod, establishes Theory as GoingBeyondOneself into Facts. Negation is the isolation (negation) of what is not fixed (free, within system) from what is fixed (not free, beyond system). (Consider the QualitiesOfSigns.)
  • considers God as being of beyond it.

===Relationships with regard to System===

{{Human}} is {{God}} within a system. {{God}} is {{human}} beyond any system. So a system distinguishes between those within it and those beyond it.

===Martin Wurzinger's theory of system===

MartinWurzinger: Firstly, what is a system? The name implies an identifiable {{Structure}} as well as a {{Dynamic}}. In other words, a 'system' expresses a certain formality while at the same time going through its paces - it 'does something'. The formality is needed because without it we would not be able to label it one way or another, and the 'doing' tells us something about its behaviour. The two are interdependent; the behaviour is classifiable within the terms of its structure, and the structure portrays an ongoing scenario we can follow according to the format we were able to identify.

{{Andrius}}: Compare with Christopher Alexander's idea that recurring {{Activity}} evokes structure, and structure channels {{Activity}}, which I am thinking of as an [AddTwo operation +2] that adds two perspectives to a structure, namely activity and non-activity from which it arises smoothly.

===System - Martin Wurzinger===

MartinWurzinger, [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/livingbytruth/message/547 February 11, 2006]: Thank you Andrius for the interesting letter to Chris Langan's conference regarding CTMU and [EternalLife life after death]. A number of issues have been raised there that at times seem to approach the nature of definition. In that light may I offer a focus that treats those concepts as systems per se (and not more - but certainly not less). For the full details of where I'm coming from see the material on the nature of {{Mind}} on [http://members.optusnet.com.au/mwurzinger48 my website]. I would also cite it as a way of introducing myself to the group.

So, here goes!

Firstly, what is a system? The name implies an identifiable {{Structure}} as well as a {{Dynamic}}. In other words, a 'system' expresses a certain formality while at the same time going through its paces - it 'does something'. The formality is needed because without it we would not be able to label it one way or another, and the 'doing' tells us something about its behaviour. The two are interdependent; the behaviour is classifiable within the terms of its structure, and the structure portrays an ongoing scenario we can follow according to the format we were able to identify.

{{Andrius}}: Compare with Christopher Alexander's idea that recurring {{Activity}} evokes structure, and structure channels {{Activity}}, which I am thinking of as an [AddTwo operation +2] that adds two perspectives to a structure, namely activity and non-activity from which it arises smoothly.

So far the situation might almost seem trivial, but consider: as we observe such a system, we, the {{Observer}}, represent a system in its own right and subject to the same definition we have just applied. For the two to work together (ie, we observe something which has meaning to us) the {{Pattern}} unfolding before us must in some way find its re-representation in our own minds, otherwise there would be no meaning. This wouldn't require the {{Observed}} system to be meaningless in itself, it simply (?) says the system would have no meaning for us.

{{Andrius}}: I am grappling with the relationship between {{Observer}} and {{Observed}} in my {{Overview}} of knowing everything.

To have a format entails expectability. But to what extent? In principle there are two options. Either we apply our pre-knowledge about certain objects, in which case another object (meant quite literally) outside the existing format forces us to re-interpret our erstwhile definition of the system. Or, we consider the scenario in terms of functionality, in which case the options multiply (for example, if a coffee table is replaced by a baroque table we need to reconsider, but if we understand the things as 'table' first and foremost then what particular type of table is being presented becomes immaterial - they are all meaningful).

{{Andrius}}: I think that EmotionalResponses are driven by {{Expectations}} and I write about this in my page on EverythingWishesForAnything.

Our minds are very good at PatternRecognition. A pattern is a format, and paring away the specific detail we arrive at the object's {{Abstraction}}, which is another way of saying we have recognised its underlying functionality. By the way, these kind of thought process can be traced in history; Thomas Aquinas for instance not only discusses proportion but moves on to proportionality, something an Aristotle didn't do! That next higher level of abstraction allows him to speculate about human nature far more powerfully than was hitherto the case.

Returning to the observer and the observed, we can say therefore that a given pattern only then becomes {{Meaningful}} to us if our {{Minds}} are capable of abstracting to a sufficient degree. The problem then becomes - what is 'sufficient'?

Even a table can be abstracted further, take the geological formation known as mesa for example. A mesa is not really a 'platform to put things on', but the semantic link is obvious.

Further abstractions are possible if the system possesses a high enough degree of complexity (such as the mind of Thomas Aquinas), but does not go further than that degree allows (compare Aquinas with the writings of Sartre for example). Since we are dealing with systems, the same can be said about the other side, the observed.

And here we come to the crux of the matter. Any given system consists of its ObjectRelatedContent as well as its [{{Latency}} abstractive potential], the former being more limited than the latter as we have seen. Again, this goes for the observer as well as the observed. However, since the system is defined as a 'system' in terms of its {{Boundaries}} as they are convenient for the purpose of the current definition, the potential can be raised by extending its boundaries. We still have our system, but now it represents a subsystem within the set of added functionalities. Naturally, we can apply the same process once again and widen our reference further still.

Continuing along that line we come to a point at which our own interpretative capacity (remember, we are the observer) reaches a limit. This limit is reached as soon as our own abstractive potential becomes incongruent in relation to the framework of what we are trying to observe. The observed system doesn't care - it is us who falter and take recourse to SemanticBridges in our attempts at reconciling the outside with what our minds are capable of expressing.

I would suggest that concepts such as 'God', 'Truth' (note the capital T), 'Good' and 'Evil' (likewise) are such semantic bridges. I suspect this is where Andrius' "God seeks ALL good" comes in (but correct me if I'm wrong). After all, we don't really know what 'good' ultimately means because the all-encompassing system of Life contains abstraction potentials far in excess of what we can make of it with our current understanding. I say 'current' because as we come across events which represent instantiated examples of our abstractions our reference system has been extended and our knowledge base has now expanded. The scientific approach of moving from hypothesis to theory and on to established fact follows that line.

The abstractive potential can be termed {{Latency}}. It is the inherent latency of any given system that gives rise to its {{Unfolding}}, whether such a system happens to be our {{Mind}}, an evolving {{Organism}}, an EcoSystem, indeed the {{Universe}}. Yet a potential is not completely open-ended. It needs the moment-by-moment {{Instantiation}} for the following phase to occur (which means I cannot discourse about Aquinas if I haven't learned how to read, I cannot abstract 'table' if I don't know about platforms, or plants and animals cannot exist unless and until something like a solar system has come into being).

And yet... would the latency as we know as of today have existed at the time the universe settled itself into star clusters? We can trace the developmental process from our vantage point, but would a galaxy somehow {{Know}} about organic compounds? There is a possible answer, and it touches on what I call {{Affinities}}.

For the time being I would be interested in what others have to say about this so far.

The relevance to Andrius' letter lies in the ideas he presents in the context of the {{Bounded}} system defined as SelfStanding; to apply "thinking as human" by positing an {{Anthropomorphic}} system; talking about Chicago, Bangalore etc as specific subsystems; and asking [{{Foursome}} Whether? What? How? Why?] as an application of abstraction processes, and residing within one's own mind at that.

2013 gruodžio 28 d., 21:40 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pridėtos 4-5 eilutės:
2012 sausio 10 d., 22:14 atliko Andrius Kulikauskas -
Pridėtos 1-4 eilutės:

System

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